All Forum Posts by: James W.

I really wish there was a simple way to look for number of open mortgages on a home. It sounds like information that the State, County or Municipality should record.

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Originally posted by @David Dachtera:

@James W.,

To expand a little on @John Errico's post, in most cases, a document or item you need - such as a transfer stamp, Certificate of Occupancy, etc. - is required in order for the closing to go forward. Sometimes, you don't learn about this until the day of closing, and end up running around like a chicken with your head cut off just to gather everything so the closing can proceed as scheduled.

David J Dachtera

"Success is not a destination. Failure is not an event. Success is a process, failure is a choice."
- DJ Benedict

In case of condos - the CO Smoke Fire and Permits - dont they already are with the Management or the HOA?

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Originally posted by @Ron S.:

$450K lien?? Was there a second mortgage? What was it??

BTW - any online search to determine open loans on a property? How do I tell the property has one more loans?

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Originally posted by @Ron S.:

The only way you can systematically get information on all liens is to order a preliminary title report and pay for it.

Ron, you've been doing this for several years, correct? Thats awesome from a newbie's shoes. Do you pay for the property report every time? It must be very difficult when you're looking at couple potential properties. No?

Also - if theres a IRS lien - can I offer to pay it on behalf of the defaultor, than letting them redeem it?

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Originally posted by @Ron S.:

Originally posted by @James W.:

One question - someone's personal liens that are not on the property - like child support judgement or income tax liabilities - are you saying the buyer will have to deal with them? Or pay them off? Or the foreclosing party would have cleared it before auctioning, or will clear them off before giving the title to auction

The buyer will not have to deal with them. We are talking about two different things here Buying and foreclosing. If while in foreclosure, a "personal lien" (Which will attach to the property) gets in line in front of the foreclosing entity, yes, the buyer will have to deal with them. The chances of that happening are immaterial in risk. No lender in their right mind will lend with a lien like that in front of them. If the lien is behind (personal liens like you mentioned) they will get wiped out. so, if there are credit card liens or child support liens (personal in nature, not from any authority like the IRS), they will get wiped out in a foreclosure. If it's not a line related to a lawsuit where the plaintiff got a judgment and sought to enforce their judgment with a lien and is instead a lien by some authority like for income taxes, they do go away, eventually. As many of us pointed out to you, there is a statutory right of redemption. The IRS can waive their rights or, they can exercise their rights within 120 days of foreclosure sale. If you are the successful bidder and their are tax liens, you either try to get the lien waived or you wait for 120 days before you go putting in new carpet on the place! It's pretty simple when you think about it. I wouldn't get all worked up over the "personal liens" issue. It's not an issue for all practical matters (key word). I wouldn't get too worked up over the IRS issue either. You aren't going to be harmed financially in either event (personal or IRS). Worse case scenario is, IRS wants the property. You get your money back.

I've been doing this for just a little while (25 years) and I can't recall a situation where the IRS exercised their lien rights.

Hope that helps...

I think I got it.

UPDATE - I just called the County. They told me the Tax and Condo Fees liens on this person. Even a Child Support. They all total up to 10K.

So it seems there IS a systematic way to find out the liens and encumbrances - that is - to speak to the county clerk like i just did.

What i am trying to do here is - find out a systematic way to get all the liens and encumbrances - that can be repeated every time - before going to an auction. Rather than reinventing the process every time.

The question now is - is this information enough for all practical purposes? Could there by yet another encumbrance somewhere that the county doesnt have recorded. Could it be fifty thousand dollars?

Ron, why do you say -"You aren't going to be harmed financially in either event (personal or IRS)." I thought I would need to pay off this child support lien? Correct?

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Originally posted by @Chad U.:

If you read through my list above, credit card debt will not remain, but child support will most likely. You'll need to verify with your state and county as everyone will be different. And as @Ron S. pointed out above, any IRS liens will have a right of redemption of 120 days. Meaning that the IRS has the right to purchase the property back from the new buyer within 120 days of the auction at the price you paid, but from what I understand this rarely happens. So no, you aren't responsible for their income tax liabilities but shouldn't spend any money on the property until end of redemption period or you may lose this if them redeem.

And no, the authorities don't throw liens on your other properties, they can only enforce them on the current owner's other properties if they have any. And yes, sewer HOA and taxes are the new buyers responsibility.

Sorry for being so dense - BUT -

Liens that survive, and liens that the new Buyer has to pay - seem two different things to me.

Liens unrelated to Property may SURVIVE - like Credit Card, IRS Taxes, Child Support. But are you saying they are now the Buyer's problem? And Buyer has now to pay the guy's Credit Card bills, Personal Taxes and Child Support - just because he bought this house from the auction??

I cant imagine this to be correct.

I can imagine any liens to SURVIVE, but if those liens are unrelated to property - they seem to be the Defaultor's problem - and not the Buyer's. Correct? Even the IRS and State Personal Taxes. They are not on the Property.

However - liens related to Property that Survive - would be the Buyer's problem - correct? Property taxes, Sewer, condo dues, others.

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Originally posted by @Chad U.:

Frequent Superior Foreclosure-Liens:

State child support lien
...
City for road improvements, maintenance
Credit Card Judgments recorded after the foreclosing mortgage
Personal Judgments recorded after the foreclosing mortgage
Mechanic's Liens recorded after the foreclosing mortgage

Other Judgments outside of the ones listed above

Aweful.

What i am trying to understand is - that some of these liens are personal to the owner. Namely, Child Support, Credit Cards, Income Tax - are we saying that the auction buyer is now responsible to pay the owner's such personal liens?

And the authorities can throw liens on buyer's other assets - because the defaulter did not pay his Child Support, Income Tax and Credit Card bill?

I'd think the buyer is now responsible for liens on the property - like Sewer , HOA, Property Taxes etc.

Am I wrong?

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Originally posted by @John Errico:

Each municipality can and does impose their own laws, fines, violations, etc. So it's very conceivable (and has happened to me) that extremely pertinent information about a property (such as the presence of open, still-accuring violations) will only be obtainable by doing a records request at the municipality level. That sort of info certainly won't be disclosed on, say, a title search.

That makes it even more complicated if municipality charges wont appear on title search.

I wonder now, in a "traditional sale", how does the Title search company determine the Municipality liens and encumbrances - and clear the title for sale?

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Originally posted by @Wes Brand:

https://www.biggerpockets.com/blogs/2872/24804-for...

Hmm. It seems the take away is that a senior loan wipes out junior liens. Now this senior could be midway between other loans, meaning its own seniors will survive. Except Tax Liens that alaways survive. Did i get that right?

it seems its not a concern when the property has only one loan.

Some questions -

1 - This applies to mortgage loans also - correct? They are also liens?

2 - Do IRS liens on property simply mean Property Taxes?

3 - Could there be a State tax lien on a property?

4 - Lastly - the owner's personal liens, like income tax, do they have anything to with Auction property and new buyer?

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All Forum Posts by: James W.

James W. has started 43 posts and replied 169 times.

Post: Burned on foreclosure purchase

Post: County Clerk Office- One-Stop-Shop for All Liens & Encumberences?

Post: Auction of property with Multiple Loans?

Post: Auction of property with Multiple Loans?

Post: Auction of property with Multiple Loans?

Post: Auction of property with Multiple Loans?

Post: Auction of property with Multiple Loans?

Post: County Clerk Office- One-Stop-Shop for All Liens & Encumberences?

Post: Auction of property with Multiple Loans?

Post: Auction of property with Multiple Loans?