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All Forum Posts by: Haley Powell

Haley Powell has started 6 posts and replied 84 times.

Post: How soon is too soon to invest out of state?

Haley PowellPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Dallas, TX
  • Posts 86
  • Votes 41
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Haley Powell:

I am currently saving up to buy my first property (a househack) while finishing grad school. I have a job lined up in Dallas, which is theoretically great for long term appreciation. However it's also highly competitive. I interned with the firm I will be joining for 7 months so I have some idea of the areas I like, though they're all somewhat close to downtown as that is where I'll be working. I've been warned that cash flowing properties near downtown are few and far between and I'm wary of saddling myself with a giant commute and my female coworkers tell me the DART isn't safe after dark. 

I am going to school at OU in Norman/OKC and living with my parents, who are from OK and know the area well. OKC seems to be up and coming and properties appear to be much more affordable here, though I don't know what I could expect to charge for rent. I'm wondering if I should invest first in OKC rather than Dallas to get my feet wet and get some sort of cash flow going. My main hang up is that it's ~3 hours away and I have no experience landlording or rehabbing (if any may be necessary), especially from a distance. Would this be too much too soon or would it be better to get something going in a market that's less competitive?

 It's going to Far easier to invest in your backyard. If it's your first deal I'd say probably don't do it unless you're surrounded by a strong team of experienced investors and industry professionals who can guide you. Dallas is a good market and if you're going to live there and work there then that is where you should start. But don't let me stop you, that's just "usually" the wiser decision to make.

Good luck!

 Most of the comments come back to research and finding a good team, wherever you start so I know those are good places to begin. I'm leaning towards Dallas still for the reasons you mentioned above, though some of these comments have me hyped and feel ready to offer on ten properties tomorrow! With the amount of cash I have on hand (~$13,000) there's not a lot of room for error and saving up more cash may be the priority over making an offer anyway.

Post: How soon is too soon to invest out of state?

Haley PowellPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Dallas, TX
  • Posts 86
  • Votes 41
Originally posted by @Kevin Chan:

If you can't do both, I still believe you should focus on doing the house hack in Dallas. You're probably looking at a net of $100-200 / month in an OKC investment, plus you'll have the down payment and all the upfront costs to account for. If you can get a place in Dallas and rent out the other rooms to cover most or all of your PITI and maybe even living expenses, you should be coming out ahead.

When you save up enough for another down payment plus some cash reserves to handle the unplanned expenses, then do your additional investing out of state.  I personally don't remember reading about massive appreciation forecasts in OKC.

That seems sound to me! I don't have a lot of money to spend at the moment and if the OKC property needs any kind of rehab it could virtually wipe out my cash savings and leave me flatfooted in Dallas (makes me regret some frivolous purchases in the past, if I'm being honest). I don't know if there are any actual forecasts, most of the information I have is anecdotal, which could be dangerous to go off of. This could also be combined with being here and perceiving development as being more major than it actually is when you put numbers to it (aka hype). Just goes to show how much research I need to do!

Post: How soon is too soon to invest out of state?

Haley PowellPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Dallas, TX
  • Posts 86
  • Votes 41
Originally posted by @David Cowan:

@Haley Powell factor property management fees into your expenses to see if the deal still works. Then research the good management companies in the area. That way you can know that things are being handled even though you live in a different area.

This is key! If I can't get the numbers to work with a property manager I don't think I could feasibly buy a property here in OKC, definitely helps rule out a lot of properties! :)

Post: How soon is too soon to invest out of state?

Haley PowellPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Dallas, TX
  • Posts 86
  • Votes 41
Originally posted by @Carly M.:

@Haley Powell how soon is too soon to invest out of state? It’s never too soon. Everyone says don’t do it. But with out big (calculated) risk there’s no big reward.

Our first multi family was out of state in Kansas City, mo. We flew in, looked at properties, made an offer and flew out. I’ve been in kc,Mo for a total for two days. That was 2 years ago. We just sold it for $150k over what we bought it for after rehab.

To be successful though I suggest these things:

1) know the market. We had an experienced rei friend who knew the market and area. We bounced idea off of him. His knowledge was key.

2) have a team built up before you buy. We did not and we had two horrible prop. Managers that cost us 6 months vacancy of one unit. If you ever want to know who not to use in Kansas City, Pm me.

We got a contractor off of bp who was great to work with. And found out great pm through bp networking.

We made it work, and it’s not impossible. But you learn a lot along the way.

3) don’t take every opinion on bp forums to heart. If I listened to everyone I wouldn’t be where we are today. Definitely take into account the person, their experience with rei, and their knowledge of the market.

Example: everyone on bp said don’t touch anything with foundation issues. It turns out Kansas City has clay soul so foundation issues are kind of normal and they know how to remediate it.

I say go all in! Just know the market and have a solid team in place. Best of luck ! ❤️

Thank you so much for your comment Carly! It's so helpful to see these simple "rules" typed out, they are a good reminder that I needed today. I've got a lot to think about after reading some of these comments, thank you again for the comment and encouragement!

Post: How soon is too soon to invest out of state?

Haley PowellPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Dallas, TX
  • Posts 86
  • Votes 41
Originally posted by @Lucia Rushton:

@Haley Powell Yes Dallas is overheated in many areas. But the key is - you will need a place to live so the advantages on several different levels to buy a place in Dallas can make sense. Keep up with your research and set a plan! You got this! 

This is what I keep reminding myself: renting in Dallas will eat my 50k salary alive. I'm fighting a false sense of urgency at the moment and I really need to sit down and gather some numbers and make a plan like you say! Thank you for the encouragement!

Post: How soon is too soon to invest out of state?

Haley PowellPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Dallas, TX
  • Posts 86
  • Votes 41
Originally posted by @Jingru Sui:

Educate yourself about the market first. Maybe even go there and see. Pull some rent comps and sales comps online. Make sure your number will make sense.

 I have been prowling around Dallas on Zillow but I haven't really dug into comps on either city, thank you for your advice, I will have to do that.

Post: How soon is too soon to invest out of state?

Haley PowellPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Dallas, TX
  • Posts 86
  • Votes 41
Originally posted by @Deone Doctors:

@Haley Powell

Learning is important. Understanding markets is important. But, as I journey down this path, what I'm finding to be most important is DOING! I spent 15 years learning. I've finally started "doing" this year. For all the learning I've done, I've still had to research so much minutia as I buckle down and treat this business like a business. I'm not saying learning isn't important, but not as effective as learning by/while doing.

One of the most important things I look for in a deal is to have as little of my own money as possible in it. This could be especially important to you as you're just getting started professionally.

A benefit of a house hack in Dallas would be that it could qualify for an FHA loan. A much smaller down payment, granted with the additional expense of PMI. If you buy right, maybe add some equity, and get premium renters, your payment could be nil.

Dallas is a hot market. Your investment could offer incredible appreciation. But hot markets are inherently more volatile. If (or as many smarter people than I say, "when") there is a crash, Dallas is intrinsically in more danger of being upset than the relatively stable OKC/Tulsa markets.

In OK, there is a lot of deals, but there are a lot of investors too. It seems to take a lot of early offers and digging to find good ones.

If I were you, this is what I would do:

Devote every second you can spare to find a deal on OKC, get it rent ready and hopefully rented within 90 days. Find a deal where you get your money back and it's cash flowing whatever your parameters are (mine is 200 a door but I'll take 100+ if there is some other great things about it).

When you go to Dallas, househack. Hopefully what you make on rent in OKC covers your overages (if any) in Dallas and live for free. (TBH, I only save rental income and am trying to build it to reinvest, but you see what I'm saying).

Find other investors to learn from, get pre-approvals, get your documentation in order, and don't be afraid to ask for help.

I've been incredibly lucky to find an amazing group of people here, and at home, that are incredibly generous with their time and knowledge. If people see you are willing to put in the work and take risks (and not just "learn", because despite everything you learn, you'll have to learn the specific details of your deal when the time comes; and a common denominator with successful people is they put there head down and charge into the unknown, and come out the other side with the knowledge they didn't have going in) they will be willing to invest time and effort into helping you succeed.

FULL DISCLAIMER: I'm not yet successful in RE. But in 3 years I'll have 7 properties (currently only have one, one under contract, and put in an offer on another yesterday!) or I'm cutting off a digit. I made a decision to stop learning and turn on the warp drive at the beginning of the year. I've made more connections and learned more by doing than I have in the last 15 years of just learning.

Good luck! You can do this. It's scary, but making moves is what will separate you from all the other "new investors" that have post after post of "how to get started/find a deal/get financing/whatever early stage step" and then disappear off the message boards first.

Remember too that your first 5 are tough and the returns make you wonder if the effort is worth it at the time. Doing one deal every 5 years, it's probably not worth it. One (or 10) a year though, that changes everything. Keep your eye on the big picture, and remember scale.

Since you're just starting out professionally

Deone this is a gold mine! Thank you so much for your input, it's given me a lot to think about. I think the plan you laid out is very shrewd and I definitely feel the urge to get out and do something but I am willing to admit that I am worried about dividing my time between school and pursuing a property. I am going to start by setting up meetings with investors here in OKC and see what they have to say. If I can find a good enough deal and get some peace of mind about finding a tenant I think I could work up the courage to take the plunge. Thank you again for your advice and your encouragement, it's always good to be pushed beyond your comfort limit. Good luck collecting your properties, I may need to borrow some of your resolve! :)

Post: How soon is too soon to invest out of state?

Haley PowellPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Dallas, TX
  • Posts 86
  • Votes 41
Originally posted by @Dennis Fernandez:

@Haley Powell

I was born, raised and still live in Dallas but I'm a cash buyer of rental homes in OKC and Tulsa for REI Nation.

My opinion is that you're better off in OKC with a newer home for a long term play. Yes Dallas has crazy double digit appreciation rates but higher taxes. It may be better for the short term. It all depends what you're goals are but bang for buck I'd say OKC.

 That makes a lot of sense! I am going to keep that in mind going forward. Given that I won't be making a large salary at my job ($50,000) I think finding a way to pare down my living expenses in Dallas will be crucial. 50k doesn't go far in Dallas and I'm worried that if I don't househack it will drain my salary to the point it's hard to save for another property. Once I get that down, I will definitely check out OKC in earnest. Theoretically I'd like to have property in both markets to hedge my bets.

Post: How soon is too soon to invest out of state?

Haley PowellPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Dallas, TX
  • Posts 86
  • Votes 41
Originally posted by @Lucia Rushton:

@Haley Powell. I think you are asking two questions - do I buy where I will live and house hack or do I rent where I will be having my new job and investing in another market? Do I understand correctly?

I know we’ve personally talked about your move to Dallas but it sounds like it’s best to be clear on what you want first.

Those are my questions! Sorry for the confusion, I probably could have written the post more clearly. I am 90% sure I want to house hack in Dallas, I have not stopped looking in Dallas. The reason I think of OKC is when I open Zillow and it shows me the market around me it seems all the properties are way more affordable. I know this doesn't guarantee cash flow or make them all a good investment, but it does discourage me to think about how I'm late to the game in Dallas and may be missing a good time to jump in in OKC. However, I think it makes more sense in my position to find something suitable in Dallas to minimize living expenses before looking elsewhere.

Post: How soon is too soon to invest out of state?

Haley PowellPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Dallas, TX
  • Posts 86
  • Votes 41
Originally posted by @Phillip Vera:

@Haley Powell sounds like you've got an interesting situation.  Welcome to real estate!  I don't know much about the Dallas or OKC markets, but as an investor, I recommend investing in what and where you know.  It sounds like you could have some appreciation in the Dallas market which is something I never count on, but certainly something to consider as you house hack.  Also, with roommates, you'll most likely be in a better financial position than renting in Dallas and buying in OKC.  You most likely come up cashflow negative when you add rent and mortgage together.  

Personally, I like the idea of a house hack in Dallas.  Somewhat of a mentality deal also.  You'll be able to see the benefit of all of your hard work.  I like out of state investing, but as many have mentioned, there's a ton of research that goes into it.  And, probably one of the most important things in out of state investing (and in state!) is building your team.  

Good luck and happy to help!

I think you're right on the point about cashflow and rent combined. Renting a place in Dallas solo is pricey (considering I have no roommate prospects at the moment) and handling a mortgage on top of it sounds like it could go bad quickly. I don't want to rely on appreciation, I've heard some horror stories, so I think I'll have to take my time and really dig in to find a good deal. Which then links to your point about building a team. Thank you for your insight, it's been helpful!