All Forum Posts by: Greg Weik

Hi, @Liam Alvarez . Welcome to BP! Many knowledgeable people are here, and it's a great resource. 

I'm also an investor in the Denver area and own a PMC (Property Management Company.) 

I am happy to offer you any insights. 

 Oh, ok!  I saw room-to-room rental, and it sounded like a HH situation to me.  Best of luck! 

Hi Tanya,

We managed HH (House Hack) properties for a few years (we don't anymore.) 

The time commitment the HH properties took from our company made them simply untenable to continue to manage.  Constant touches from us regarding rent, vacancies, tenant complaints, etc.  

Property management - to be profitable - relies on scalable processes and procedures.  Efficiency.  Spending as little time on each door as possible.  

HH properties (and often HH clients) are high resource utilization accounts for a PMC, so many PMCs won't take them on, or will only take them on with the understanding that the property will be converted to a single-lease property (we do still use this approach.) 

I hope that helps explain why it may be a challenge to find a PMC, feel free to reach out if you have any questions! 

 @Alex Powers what happened, how were you duped? 

@Steven Mendiola I applaud your approach and wish you luck. 

I've personally managed a number of house hacks, and the challenge is basically, you're dealing with a much more transient and unreliable tenant base than with other types of properties.  

When I allowed HH properties at my company, we screened people to the degree we could (credit, background, income, rental history), but you still end up with some percentage of "crazies" who can derail the entire property and force out your other tenants.  

Screening is important, but so is your lease.  You need to have a mechanism to remove tenants who are a problem, and I would strongly encourage you to consult an attorney the moment you close to get your lease terms right. You may be surprised to know you can't just kick someone out.  It's exceptionally difficult to remove a tenant, now more than ever.

I understand this is an appealing way for people to get into real estate investing, but my $.02 as a real estate investor and someone with front-row experience with these properties to run away screaming from this approach.  The risks far outweigh the rewards. It's what I call spreadsheet investing.  The spreadsheet will never tell you about real-world problems, and I assure you there are many. 

Are there success stories?  Of course.  People love coming to places like this and saying, "Yeah, bro, no problem, I rented all my rooms in a day and was swimming in cash."  I'm not so sure.  Personally, I'm pretty decent at property management and I have to call BS on every such story I see.  The only way to run a HH property is with constant oversight and diligence and even then it can go off the rails.  

My unsolicited advice: do a different side hustle, start making real money at it, and buy an actual single-family home as an investment.  Put at least 20% down and rent it with a single lease.  Build equity, get a heloc, and get another house.  

Hi @Dennis Pulscher, I agree with @Kevin Sobilo - your best bet here is to deliver a 10 Day Demand Notice for non-payment.  Double check with an attorney to make sure you've completed it correctly.

You will need to attempt to deliver it, by hand, to one of the tenants.  If you cannot, you must make another attempt on another day, and if that attempt is unsuccessful, you may then post the notice in a conspicuous place. 

Either way - whether the tenants fail to vacate based on the notice you provided or whether they fail to pay, it sounds like you are headed towards eviction.  

Non-payment of rent evictions are usually easier.  Best of luck to you. 

Do what @Nathan Gesner said, and please hire a professional for your next tenants. 

If your lease has a clause such as "tenant agrees to pay the security deposit," and you fail to enforce it, you're running into the legal concept of waiver. Accepting rent with a known lease violation is tacit acceptance of that lease violation. 

For future reference, the concept of waiver could include any lease violation, such as unauthorized pets at the property. Once you accept rent while knowing of a lease violation, the law will not look kindly on any future attempts to evict based on that lease violation. This is a concept many landlords fail to appreciate. 

Your only real recourse now is to terminate the tenancy.  Never let a tenant move in without a security deposit paid in full.  Do not agree on a payment arrangement, this is a point of non-negotiation. 

I thought I would share this, as I've seen a lot of posts recently about how to start a property management company.  As a 20-year industry veteran, I still see most sales agents fail to understand what I do (typically, they think they know). It seems that many people who are considering getting into the industry are also unclear about what to expect.  Here's my take:

Property Management is more closely related to automotive manufacturing than what people naturally think of when they hear "Real Estate."  

In property management, every property goes down the assembly line. I'm sure you've seen video clips of auto assembly.  The frame goes down the line, seats are added, wiring harnesses, doors, etc.  A lot of it is done by robots, and a lot of it still is done by people.  Imagine a new account being added to your property management company and making its way down that line instead of a car. 

The process:

The new rental house starts moving down the line... Someone enters data into the property management software from the PMA (Property Management Agreement... Someone takes photos... Someone lists the property across the sites...  Someone sets up showings... Someone processes application data... Someone decides (that carries significant consequences) whether an application is approved or not... Someone creates and sends a lease... Someone handles accounting to record management fees, pay vendors, and pay the client... Someone opens work orders for repairs... Someone handles lease issues or violations, which are often complicated and with serious legal ramifications... As the lease end date approaches, someone starts a REMOC (REnewal/Move Out Checklist), and someone works the REMOC depending on the direction the property goes (Lease extension of processing the move-out)...  Eventually, someone looks at the Move Out Documentation and decides the fate of a security deposit (again, with significant legal consequences) ...

There are hundreds of other steps along the line that all have to be executed perfectly. Airtight process procedures and checklists must be in place to ensure the steps are all followed the same way every time (scalability) and that the relevant parties are apprised of the process as it moves down the assembly line. A mistake early in the process will manifest itself later.  

Everyone who touches the property along the way has to do their job, or at the end of the line, you'll have a vehicle with missing pieces, wheels that have fallen off, a vehicle that cannot be trusted and a client who will be shopping for a new PMC.

The customer doesn't care if you did everything right except you forgot the steering wheel. Nor should they, because you're being paid to get it all right, every time, without exception. 

In addition to this pressure to get it right at each step, you have pressure to do it quickly. Your time is finite. You cannot spend too much time on any one door because you cannot charge beyond the market rate for any single door, so each door needs to follow the process efficiently and precisely. 

The process must also be continually improved as new technologies come online, laws change, bottlenecks are identified, etc. Your processes can never remain as they were yesterday or last year.  The fundamentals stay the same, but the process details continually shift. 

You want to establish a reputation for our properties going down the assembly line consistently. You'll lean on employees at some point to be experts along the assembly line.  But they typically won't last forever, and you'll need to scramble to keep things moving in their absence.  There will be missteps, but they should be few and something you can learn from—not repeat. 

If my description of property management sounds like something you'll be good at and enjoy doing, it's a good fit, and I say go for it.  If you enjoy logistics and efficiency, it's a great industry.  If you're not wired that way, you will need to partner with someone who is. 

The upside:  There is a lot of money to be made, potentially, and every door you add to your portfolio builds your company's value bigger and bigger (vs. sales, where it's a transaction and then it's over). PMCs can sell for 2x annual revenue if they have a good portfolio. It's a business with incredible value in terms of stable, predictable revenue and as a retirement asset. 

The downside:  It's hard.  It's hard.  The legislative climate in many states (like Colorado, where I operate) makes running a property management company akin to doing open-heart surgery on a row boat in the open sea with choppy water.  Some variables conspire to trip you up Even if you know what you're doing.  However, the fact that it's hard is exactly why there will always be a need for professional property management.  

Hey @Joe Fish, property management is a lot like insurance. 

When we take on a new door, our fee structure is essentially a guess and a "hedge" against future claims (against our time.)  If you have a lot of doors, any claims you're paying out (again, with your time spent dealing with issues) are generally offset by the premiums you're collecting from doors that don't require any or much attention.

The fee structure should be transparent and easy to understand, and it certainly should be on the PMCs radar to avoid "project management" when possible.  Project management is not property management, but people may define project management differently. Here's my take:

If my company has to get a couple of quotes for a new furnace, that means sending a few emails, packaging the information from the vendors intelligently, and relaying this information to the client in a way that adds value, usually with a recommendation based on experience and context.  Keep the tenants in the loop and set follow-up reminders to see it through. This is not project management. It's just part of what we do.  

On the other hand, if a client hires RES at the tail-end of an existing lease and knows full well that their rental property is falling apart and needs everything from paint, flooring, blinds, other repairs, landscaping, etc., we will not under any circumstances spearhead this project. We ask the client to get it done and come to us when it's ready to go—and only then we will list it and get to work.  

When you're starting out in PM, any door is a door you want - or so you think.  After about 20 years, we've learned to be very selective, both with the door and with the client.  I'll take marginal doors if I like the client, and I will fire clients with beautiful doors if I think they are a PITA to work with or if they suck too much of our time (I will warn them first, and if they don't adhere to the warning, I politely show them the exit.)  

Hope this helps!

Brand recognition is not really something landlords hire when they hire a PMC. 

A franchise is only "worth it" to the degree their systems are outstanding and can guide you through the process of acquiring and managing the doors.  

I compete with the major PMC franchises in Denver: Real Property Management, KeyRenter, Renters Warehouse, etc.  We take their lunch money every year because clients ultimately don't care about the brand - it's the systems, training, communication, and people that can keep clients happy (or not.) 

I agree with the sentiment of "you must be highly organized."  This business is not "real estate" as many think it is.  This business is more closely related to manufacturing, if I had to guess.  Every property goes down the assembly line and everyone has to do their job perfectly or at the end of the line the wheels fall off and the car bursts into flames. 

It's not an easy business, but it's incredibly profitable and rewarding if done right.  Good luck!