All Forum Posts by: Gray Dyer

In my state, all of the contracts are available on the DORA website for free to the public, and you can go to a title company with a mutually executed contract and they will handle most of the mechanics of the transaction. Not sure about other states: I know some require attorney review at closing, or may not have all the contracts available online for free, etc. but it's probably not that complicated in most states. You'll have to learn the contracts, laws, and sales process for each state you want to work in. You can also hire a transaction coordinator to help for a few hundred dollars.

 However, as an unrepresented buyer you'll probably screw something major up and leave more money on the table than you would using a GOOD (operative word here) agent to represent you. You probably won't believe me or want to hear this advice, but I see this ALL THE TIME. Some hotshot investor-type (often a Dr., lawyer, nouveau riche tech professional, retired athlete etc., usually highly successful in their own lane, intelligent and competitive with an ego to match) thinks they're too smart to need an agent and ends up worse off than if they had a GOOD agent. Many times they don't even realize it.

Forgive the tough love coming your way, but the fact that you held your license previously and are still asking this question tells me you'd benefit from representation. Sorry if that's not what you want to hear, but it's a public forum after all. Again, you can just get the necessary contracts, find a good title company, hire a transaction coordinator and go for it. But the chances of not messing  something important up are low. The process for converting lead into gold using a particle accelerator is also pretty straight-forward. But it's not cost-effective. It costs more than just buying the gold which is of course also a lot easier. 

Similarly, I get calls nearly every week from an unrepresented buyer wondering if they should sue the seller for failure to disclose (good luck, it's caveat emptor here and your chance to discover issues was during due diligence), or asking how to solve their problem with the property that they overlooked, or what to do now that they're under contract and realize the zestimate they used to make their offer was off by six figures and they are over-paying by a lot and don't have the contingencies to get out that they should, etc. and when I look into these transactions, it's clear they messed everything up. When an unrepresented buyer offers on one of my listings, I know 12 different ways to out-negotiate them and make them pay more at closing, without them ever even knowing it. Even a mediocre agent is usually better than no agent, but a GOOD agent will earn their commission and then some. I have several examples from last year when buyers (all highly intelligent, successful people), decided not to use an agent and literally left $400k on the table due to their ignorance. 

@V.G Jason regarding the disparity in what agents bring to the table... I suspect this is mostly price-point related. I work in an expensive market where I live and in less expensive markets nearby where I and my clients mostly invest, and the difference in professionalism between agents in those two markets is glaringly conspicuous. Obviously the higher-end markets where the top agents are all multi-millionaires themselves and aren't automatically willing to say anything to get paid at closing are going to be different than markets where agents are barely scraping by. 

@V.G Jason

@Kevin Sobilo

@V.G Jason

I appreciate you both and you have 3,500 upvotes between you.  No need to let this OP come between us.

As always we're missing the forest for the trees here.

What's the story with this 'deal,' and why is working with an agent or not the linchpin?  I bet it's not which is why I asked for more info.

It's like when someone says "I have bad credit, no job and no assets but I found a $2M deal, how do I get the down payment" and everyone starts chiming in with ways to come up with a down payment.

OK everyone carry on

What was confusing was you asked how to save on a RE deal because you knew how to do it and "anyone could", but then asked how to do the most basic functions of the person you want to cut out who essentially does the deal for you.  Not that you can't get answers to those honest questions, but framing it right and not insulting those who answer your question is probably a good practice.

Also I think @Kevin Sobilo was very clear that he would also use an agent out of state himself. No one here is trying to win your business lol... trust me.

Quote from @Gray Dyer:

Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:

Quote from @Gray Dyer:

Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:

Quote from @Gray Dyer:

Ok, just for clarification, I don't need nay saying or Debbie downers replying to this post telling me why I should use a real estate agent. I am capable of dping the thing an agent does, most are. My question was how do I make a deal without a real estate agent? Specifically looking for first hand, experienced in being their own agent, investors to give their input and advice. Thanks.

YES! Most people are capable of doing what an agent does BUT MANY MANY people don't have the months or years to gain the knowledge and experience and that can differ quite a bit from state to state.

You only mentioned buying "a few homes". So, you really made it sound like you may be lacking those things at this point. That is why you're getting the responses you are.

I am an agent and investor and even I would use an agent in another state unless I had some real familiarity with the laws and practices of that state!

Everyone, like yourself, is assuming, don't. Thanks.

@Gray Dyer, nobody assumed anything. You claimed limited experience and you're question was specifically one of naivety.

Now at least you know your post did not say what you intended at all. You're welcome. 

From people with actual knowledge of the subject, not people like you. Dont be rude to people who are actually helpful either. This is not a thread to justify your job. Again thanks.

Sounds like you literally wrote that to yourself! Keep in mind you were the one being rude to people with knowledge trying to be helpful.

So, you couldn't any more be the pot calling the kettle black on this one! lol

Good luck!

Quote from @Gray Dyer:

Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:

Quote from @Gray Dyer:

Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:

Quote from @Gray Dyer:

Ok, just for clarification, I don't need nay saying or Debbie downers replying to this post telling me why I should use a real estate agent. I am capable of dping the thing an agent does, most are. My question was how do I make a deal without a real estate agent? Specifically looking for first hand, experienced in being their own agent, investors to give their input and advice. Thanks.

YES! Most people are capable of doing what an agent does BUT MANY MANY people don't have the months or years to gain the knowledge and experience and that can differ quite a bit from state to state.

You only mentioned buying "a few homes". So, you really made it sound like you may be lacking those things at this point. That is why you're getting the responses you are.

I am an agent and investor and even I would use an agent in another state unless I had some real familiarity with the laws and practices of that state!

Everyone, like yourself, is assuming, don't. Thanks.

@Gray Dyer, nobody assumed anything. You claimed limited experience and you're question was specifically one of naivety.

Now at least you know your post did not say what you intended at all. You're welcome. 

From people with actual knowledge of the subject, not people like you. Dont be rude to people who are actually helpful either. This is not a thread to justify your job. Again thanks.

The best part is his profile reads, and I quote, "My day job is software development. I am a part time real estate agent and also an investor."

Real estate agents are so valuable that he can only justify doing it as a side hustle.

I'm dead lol

Quote from @Gray Dyer:

Ok, just for clarification, I don't need nay saying or Debbie downers replying to this post telling me why I should use a real estate agent. I am capable of dping the thing an agent does, most are. My question was how do I make a deal without a real estate agent? Specifically looking for first hand, experienced in being their own agent, investors to give their input and advice. Thanks.

Hi Gray, which state are you looking to invest in? Most states, you can find a free reliable sales contract/agreement online and edit in the names, purchase price, legal description, timeline for sale etc. Doesn't hurt to spend a couple hundred and have it attorney reviewed, but not necessary if you are familiar with all of the verbiage. After you and the current owner sign it, send it to a title company to open escrow and from there, they'll confirm the seller is the rightful owner and prepare the deed of transfer and arrange the notary services and recording.

Quote from @Gray Dyer:

Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:

Quote from @Gray Dyer:

Ok, just for clarification, I don't need nay saying or Debbie downers replying to this post telling me why I should use a real estate agent. I am capable of dping the thing an agent does, most are. My question was how do I make a deal without a real estate agent? Specifically looking for first hand, experienced in being their own agent, investors to give their input and advice. Thanks.

YES! Most people are capable of doing what an agent does BUT MANY MANY people don't have the months or years to gain the knowledge and experience and that can differ quite a bit from state to state.

You only mentioned buying "a few homes". So, you really made it sound like you may be lacking those things at this point. That is why you're getting the responses you are.

I am an agent and investor and even I would use an agent in another state unless I had some real familiarity with the laws and practices of that state!

Everyone, like yourself, is assuming, don't. Thanks.

@Gray Dyer, nobody assumed anything. You claimed limited experience and you're question was specifically one of naivety.

Now at least you know your post did not say what you intended at all. You're welcome. 

You could also save by cutting out title and doing all the title work yourself

Quote from @Gray Dyer:

Ok, just for clarification, I don't need nay saying or Debbie downers replying to this post telling me why I should use a real estate agent. I am capable of dping the thing an agent does, most are. My question was how do I make a deal without a real estate agent? Specifically looking for first hand, experienced in being their own agent, investors to give their input and advice. Thanks.

YES! Most people are capable of doing what an agent does BUT MANY MANY people don't have the months or years to gain the knowledge and experience and that can differ quite a bit from state to state.

You only mentioned buying "a few homes". So, you really made it sound like you may be lacking those things at this point. That is why you're getting the responses you are.

I am an agent and investor and even I would use an agent in another state unless I had some real familiarity with the laws and practices of that state!

Quote from @Gray Dyer:

Quote from @Travis Biziorek:

Hey Gray, I do this all the time.

All you really need is a purchase agreement. You can get pretty standard ones for your state online. Then you fill it out, both parties sign, and you get it to a title company.

The whole thing seems intimidating and complex but it's really that simple. Title will do their thing, make sure they can verify chain of title and write insurance, then it's just about bringing the monies to the closing table and both parties signing.

Thank you Travis! This is actually very helpful. 

 No problem, man. Lots of agents here seem pretty upset but that's just silly. 

I'm getting my license here in the next couple weeks and my attitude won't change. Transactions are not complex. Market knowledge is everything.

If you have the market knowledge and source your own deal you do NOT need an agent.