All Forum Posts by: Gordon Starr

You can't always roof-over as others point out, especially with a third layer. The existing roof and structure have to be in pretty good shape and you need to check building codes in your area.

On the other hand, its a lot easier to recommend a complete tear off if you aren't paying for it! Even more so if you stand to profit from doing the vastly more work. So, of course most roofers won't recommend it. Has anyone known a painter who recommended just doing touch up work rather than a complete repainting?

Here is the law in ohio:

REROOFING

1511.1 General. Materials and methods of application used for recovering or replacing an existing roof covering shall comply with the requirements of Chapter 15.

Exceptions:

1. Roof replacement or roof recover of existing low slope roof coverings shall not be required to meet the minimum design slope requirement of one-quarter unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2-percent slope) in Section 1507 for roofs that provide positive roof drainage.

2. Recovering or replacing an existing roof covering shall not be required to meet the requirement for secondary (emergency overflow) drains or scuppers in Section 1503.4 for roofs that provide for positive roof drainage. For the purposes of this exception, existing secondary drainage or scupper systems required in accordance with this code shall not be removed unless they are replaced by secondary drains or scuppers designed and installed in accordance with Section 1503.4.

1511.2 Structural and construction loads. Structural roof components shall be capable of supporting the roof-covering system and the material and equipment loads that will be encountered during installation of the system.

1511.3 Roof replacement. Roof replacement shall include the removal of all existing layers of roof coverings down to the roof deck.

Exception: Where the existing roof assembly includes an ice barrier membrane that is adhered to the roof deck, the existing ice barrier membrane shall be permitted to remain in place and covered with an additional layer of ice barrier membrane in accordance with Section 1507.

1511.3.1 Roof recover. The installation of a new roof covering over an existing roof covering shall be permitted where any of the following conditions occur:

1. Where the new roof covering is installed in accordance with the roof covering manufacturer's approved instructions.

2. Complete and separate roofing systems, such as standing-seam metal roof panel systems, that are designed to transmit the roof loads directly to the building's structural system and that do not rely on existing roofs and roof coverings for support, shall not require the removal of existing roof coverings.

3. Metal panel, metal shingle and concrete and clay tile roof coverings shall be permitted to be installed over existing wood shake roofs when applied in accordance with Section 1511.4.

4. The application of a new protective coating over an existing spray polyurethane foam roofing system shall be permitted without tear off of existing roof coverings.

1511.3.1.1 Exceptions. A roof recover shall not be permitted where any of the following conditions occur:

1. Where the existing roof or roof covering is water soaked or has deteriorated to the point that the existing roof or roof covering is not adequate as a base for additional roofing.

2. Where the existing roof covering is slate, clay, cement or asbestos-cement tile.

3. Where the existing roof has two or more applications of any type of roof covering.

1511.4 Roof recovering. Where the application of a new roof covering over wood shingle or shake roofs creates a combustible concealed space, the entire existing surface shall be covered with gypsum board, mineral fiber, glass fiber or other approved materials securely fastened in place.

1511.5 Reinstallation of materials. Existing slate, clay or cement tile shall be permitted for reinstallation, except that damaged, cracked or broken slate or tile shall not be reinstalled. Existing vent flashing, metal edgings, drain outlets, collars and metal counter flashings shall not be reinstalled where rusted, damaged or deteriorated. Aggregate surfacing materials shall not be reinstalled.

1511.6 Flashings. Flashings shall be reconstructed in accordance with approved manufacturer's installation instructions. Metal flashing to which bituminous materials are to be adhered shall be primed prior to installation.

Folks, dont act like adding another layer is stupid. Its within code up to three layers. It's a very common capital improvement. every roof I've torn off in dayton had three layers. I just put a second layer on.my own home for 2200 dollars complete. It's a huge improvement over the leaky roof I had!

What you say your roof "needs" is already a ton of work, you would not be wrong to do a complete tear off. For me, it would depend on my budget for capital expenditures. Right now, I am on a buying spree in the Dayton Ohio, shiloh, north riverdale area. For this reason my capex budget is a bit low. So, I save by patching or adding another layer of shingles, which you can do with just two layers. These dimensional shingles will last a good 15 years with a roof over and look nice. If you choose that route, just make sure they use longer nails, since you already have two layers for the nails to go through to reach solid wood.

When I was first starting out, I left these panels in place at a few places including my own home .. and didn't have insurance. I also risked my neck in a lot of ways investigating abandoned houses. People often start out taking on massive risks because they cant afford the insurance or safety upgrades. Over time I have changed these panels out and it gives me peace of mind. Its a new strategy since I now have more money. It is not difficult electrical work and your stated price sounds way too high by Ohio standards. Shop around..

Good job! I used to ask my Detroit tenants to keep a list of issues they found. When I did come up from dayton, I would knock them all out at once.

@Account Closed I does seem like the treasurer's auction had a lot more properties for sale since lot links ended. I heard the city wanted to find a new sales venue that was more open to competition for the derelict properties.

Hi BP, I have been an active buyer of really cheap houses in Dayton, OH for years. So, I was a bit perturbed when Dayton announced it would stop taking applications for "Lot Links" last December. For those of you who worked this program, I salute you! You had to be brave when you went in to check them out! Toward the end they were selling for $750 per lot, with or without a house. Where can you find cheap housing stock around town now? Its more than a casual interest for me, I actually want to buy more. Look what it did for the North Riverdale area. There used to be like 20% abandoned properties, now those places are almost all torn down or rehabbed. What a difference!

To me it depends a lot on the kind of property you are holding and how well it cashflows! In my view, entry level housing is grossly under-served by current construction trends. If you have that and it cashflows, it does not matter where it is, you should keep it up and NOT sell.  Or, is everyone in their late 50s and 60s, and younger people aren't buying these properties and they don't (barely) cash flow. You should definitely sell and rotate into something profitable and sustainable with cash flow. Also, unload your Harley Davidson. Why buy for the schools when the kids are all out of the nest? Just my two cents, and remember, advice is cheap! Actually free on bigger pockets.

If you need to save money, I would recommend you learn how to patch/repair the problem areas so it can pass inspection. Do all you can myself. Just do enough so it could pass inspection and start with the water issues. Then present the inspection to perspective REI buyers along the rent rolls. It might sell just because of the cash flow!

Put all your expenses on your credit card and build your cash account, borrow from family. A moldy house might sit on the market for quite awhile. Maybe you will have time to pull it together..