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All Forum Posts by: Eric Carr

Eric Carr has started 9 posts and replied 644 times.

Post: Do you invest in Bitcoin / Cryptocurrency?

Eric CarrPosted
  • Real Estate Broker
  • Los Angeles, CA
  • Posts 655
  • Votes 293

Joe, you seem to think people only like  Bitcoin for its perceived criminal and tax cheating uses.  I can tell you for certain that is the perception of people who don't understand it but are trying to fight it. Or entities that are threatened and are trying to fight it. I've given concrete reasons why bitcoin is a terrible choice for crime and taxivation, in prime and taxivation, in previous posts and other threads.

The Russian invasion proves exactly why the world needs it. Exactly the same proof that the Canadian government just offered, and the US government when it prohibited the ownership of gold.  In fact, banks can seize your money in the US to prevent solvency. 

I recognize a narrow theme in your arguments against it. At the moment, you've chosen to dislike it, while the rest of the world embraces it. 

It seems like you you side with Chinese and North Korean authoritarianism.  And central bank currency manipulation.

Maybe you don't know this but cash is actually best for crime, laundering, and tax evasion

Post: Do you invest in Bitcoin / Cryptocurrency?

Eric CarrPosted
  • Real Estate Broker
  • Los Angeles, CA
  • Posts 655
  • Votes 293
Quote from @Joe Splitrock:
Quote from @Eric Carr:
Quote from @Dylan Barnard:
Quote from @Eric Carr:
Quote from @Dylan Barnard:
Quote from @Darnell Duncan:

I think it'd be naive to be so dismissive of cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology. I understand the idea behind being skeptical about change, or anything that you're unfamiliar with, but it's pretty obvious there's a lot of value there. 

At the end of the day, all investments are risks. Whether it's in real estate, stocks, business, cryptocurrency etc. What you decide to do should be based on your own situation and your own sense of risk management, not any one else's.

I think blockchain technology will be well apart of our future.


 No one is dismissing the value of the technology, just the value of the coin itself. Like someone mentioned above, PayPal is using Blockchain - I can get behind that idea because they are a company with underlying cash flow and profits. But buying a coin just because you think it will go up in value is reckless in my opinion. There is a fine line between investing and gambling and buying a coin falls on the gambling side IMO. 

 Everyone is welcome to their opinion
What does PayPal do? It facilitates purchases and monetary transfers. Also does so using bitcoin. 

What does bitcoin do? It is an immutable ledger on the most secure network on the planet, is censorship resistant, can't be manipulated or confiscated, hardest form of money ever known.  And it facilitates purchases and instant instant money transfers - for free. And gives a person total ownership of their wealth. Seems pretty damn valuable to me. 

 The Internet is only valuable because of the company's I mentioned? I disagree. The Internet has value because it is valuable. For one, it allows people to send messages, music, pictures, instantly, video chat, and basically for free.  Sound familiar? 
And if it wasn't Google, Amazon, and the rest, it would be someone else. The Internet has always had inherent value. 

However, there were people like Paul Krugman, who thought the Internet was a passing fad.  There were lots of people and "analysts" and "investors" who thought Amazon would never survive. I believe most of the world thought that a stranger would never get into someone else's car nor rent someone's house over the Internet. 

Do you see a pattern?

 If you still don't believe owning a piece of the Internet is more valuable than a company that is built on top of it... Would you rather own a building in times square, or the entire block that everything is built on top of?  




 We are going to have to agree to disagree here man. You are talking in abstracts, I am talking in investment terms. I may be wrong and miss out on Bitcoin going to $1m, but you are deluding yourself if you don't think that comes with immense risk. 

I think crypto enthusiasts need to decide whether they want it to be a currency or a technology. If it's a currency, massive appreciation is a recipe for massive deflation and a shrinking economy where people hoard money and don't invest it and nothing gets done. If it's a technology, then they need to provide some kind of return to the people that buy it. It can't be free for everyone to use like you are suggesting. 

  The purpose of a debate, for me, is not to hammer everyone into thinking my way. 

 So I'm definitely not trying to change your mind. Anyone who comes across this can read our thoughts here and make up their own.

I disagree that I'm speaking in abstracts. Buildings have a maintenance cost, yes? Some estimate 10% per year. They also require capital expenditures. They also become physically obsolescent over enough time. So the land underneath those buildings don't have maintenance costs. It doesn't become obsolete and it doesn't depreciate.  If 10 buildings on times square fell down one day, that would be a major loss for the owners of those buildings. But if you owned the land underneath, you haven't lost anything. 

Let's say in 5 years something better than Google comes along and Google is seen as obsolete. Does that make the Internet less valuable? No. 

 Yes, technology is deflationary. Inherently so.

Does it cost you 32 cents, or whatever a stamp costs, every time you send an email? I guess we could say to some degree that email has demonetized the USPS. I can name a 100 ways that technology has taken jobs, destroyed entire industries, made products and services cheaper and more abundant, and removed middlemen. 

That's what people want. Convenience. And property ownership. 

Somewhere around 2 or 3 months ago, someone sent $2Billion worth of bitcoin from one point to another.  The total cost was $1.75.  And done instantly, from the privacy of their own home, or whatever they wanted to be. They didn't have to drive to a bank branch, wait in line, fill out paperwork or send a fax, or discuss the details of a private transaction with a bank employee, and then wait a week for the money to arrive. imagine how difficult it would be to send 2 billion dollars over a bank wire. What do you think something like that would have cost?


 That $2B transfer was done anonymously and was most certainly a taxable event. I saw the same article and nobody ever talks about the tax burden, probably because tax evasion was involved. A wire transfer costs around $20 within the US and $50 internationally and would require proof of identity plus IRS reporting of the transaction (if the US is involved). It is not that Bitcoin transactions don't cost money, it is just how the miners are compensated. The miners get paid with crypto, but in the case of Bitcoin the rewards diminish over time. That forced scarcity makes the system get more expensive to operate and eventually will have an impact on transaction cost. 

The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a great example of why Bitcoin faces challenges. The Russian banks were cut off from Swift, which allows international wire transfers. Russians are buying crypto to bypass and evade detection. People argue this helps crypto, but I would argue a system that attracts criminals (including tax evasion) is not sustainable. The exact reasons people love Bitcoin are its weakness.

I think blockchain and crypto are here to stay, but I am just not sure Bitcoin will be the winner. You use the analogy of Amazon, but it is easy to predict a winner looking back. There were hundreds of other dot com companies that failed. You are just conveniently only citing the one that succeeded. Book Stacks Unlimited was selling books online several years before Amazon through BBS went online at Books.com. They were eventually acquired by Barnes and Noble. We all know how the story ends. In 1994 there was a guy just like you telling people that Book Stacks was the future of book sales. In this story it is important to understand why Amazon succeeded. It wasn't because they had a superior website and they were not first. It was how Jeff Bezos built the company and deployed a strategy.


  Doesn't matter if it was a taxable event. That wasn't the point. At which bank do you store 2 billion dollars? And how quickly can you move it?

And the point about Amazon wasn't about picking winners. It was about people missing the boat and being resistant to change and new technology. Bitcoin is the only non centralized non sovereign store of wealth on the planet. That's one of the reasons why it's different 

Which people think Russians buying helps the cause?   I don't think you've answered a single question of mine. I must have asked 20, at least

If you had family in Russia, wouldn't you want them to have money to get the things they need?

 Using bitcoin for crime is a terrible idea. I've already mentioned why. That's also an old argument that died a long time ago 

Post: Do you invest in Bitcoin / Cryptocurrency?

Eric CarrPosted
  • Real Estate Broker
  • Los Angeles, CA
  • Posts 655
  • Votes 293
Quote from @Dylan Barnard:
Quote from @Eric Carr:
Quote from @Dylan Barnard:
Quote from @Darnell Duncan:

I think it'd be naive to be so dismissive of cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology. I understand the idea behind being skeptical about change, or anything that you're unfamiliar with, but it's pretty obvious there's a lot of value there. 

At the end of the day, all investments are risks. Whether it's in real estate, stocks, business, cryptocurrency etc. What you decide to do should be based on your own situation and your own sense of risk management, not any one else's.

I think blockchain technology will be well apart of our future.


 No one is dismissing the value of the technology, just the value of the coin itself. Like someone mentioned above, PayPal is using Blockchain - I can get behind that idea because they are a company with underlying cash flow and profits. But buying a coin just because you think it will go up in value is reckless in my opinion. There is a fine line between investing and gambling and buying a coin falls on the gambling side IMO. 

 Everyone is welcome to their opinion
What does PayPal do? It facilitates purchases and monetary transfers. Also does so using bitcoin. 

What does bitcoin do? It is an immutable ledger on the most secure network on the planet, is censorship resistant, can't be manipulated or confiscated, hardest form of money ever known.  And it facilitates purchases and instant instant money transfers - for free. And gives a person total ownership of their wealth. Seems pretty damn valuable to me. 

 The Internet is only valuable because of the company's I mentioned? I disagree. The Internet has value because it is valuable. For one, it allows people to send messages, music, pictures, instantly, video chat, and basically for free.  Sound familiar? 
And if it wasn't Google, Amazon, and the rest, it would be someone else. The Internet has always had inherent value. 

However, there were people like Paul Krugman, who thought the Internet was a passing fad.  There were lots of people and "analysts" and "investors" who thought Amazon would never survive. I believe most of the world thought that a stranger would never get into someone else's car nor rent someone's house over the Internet. 

Do you see a pattern?

 If you still don't believe owning a piece of the Internet is more valuable than a company that is built on top of it... Would you rather own a building in times square, or the entire block that everything is built on top of?  




 We are going to have to agree to disagree here man. You are talking in abstracts, I am talking in investment terms. I may be wrong and miss out on Bitcoin going to $1m, but you are deluding yourself if you don't think that comes with immense risk. 

I think crypto enthusiasts need to decide whether they want it to be a currency or a technology. If it's a currency, massive appreciation is a recipe for massive deflation and a shrinking economy where people hoard money and don't invest it and nothing gets done. If it's a technology, then they need to provide some kind of return to the people that buy it. It can't be free for everyone to use like you are suggesting. 

  The purpose of a debate, for me, is not to hammer everyone into thinking my way. 

 So I'm definitely not trying to change your mind. Anyone who comes across this can read our thoughts here and make up their own.

I disagree that I'm speaking in abstracts. Buildings have a maintenance cost, yes? Some estimate 10% per year. They also require capital expenditures. They also become physically obsolescent over enough time. So the land underneath those buildings don't have maintenance costs. It doesn't become obsolete and it doesn't depreciate.  If 10 buildings on times square fell down one day, that would be a major loss for the owners of those buildings. But if you owned the land underneath, you haven't lost anything. 

Let's say in 5 years something better than Google comes along and Google is seen as obsolete. Does that make the Internet less valuable? No. 

 Yes, technology is deflationary. Inherently so.

Does it cost you 32 cents, or whatever a stamp costs, every time you send an email? I guess we could say to some degree that email has demonetized the USPS. I can name a 100 ways that technology has taken jobs, destroyed entire industries, made products and services cheaper and more abundant, and removed middlemen. 

That's what people want. Convenience. And property ownership. 

Somewhere around 2 or 3 months ago, someone sent $2Billion worth of bitcoin from one point to another.  The total cost was $1.75.  And done instantly, from the privacy of their own home, or whatever they wanted to be. They didn't have to drive to a bank branch, wait in line, fill out paperwork or send a fax, or discuss the details of a private transaction with a bank employee, and then wait a week for the money to arrive. imagine how difficult it would be to send 2 billion dollars over a bank wire. What do you think something like that would have cost?

  People can decide whatever they want about it. Whether it's a currency or an asset. I look at it as property. And over the last 12 years, the greatest appreciating property that's ever existed. So I wouldn't spend it on PayPal or to buy coffee just as I wouldn't try to slice off a piece of an apartment building to pay for the same. Nor would I refinance to take money out and buy a car. 

When did I say it comes without risk?  Nor have I ever said it should be free to everyone. 

There are many uses for it, including an actual cash return. 

Post: Bitcoin is 10k again what are you going to do now?

Eric CarrPosted
  • Real Estate Broker
  • Los Angeles, CA
  • Posts 655
  • Votes 293

Citadel Securities is expanding into the crypto markets. 

You know, this sort of means that Ken Griffin admits he was wrong about crypto

https://www.barrons.com/articl...

Post: Bitcoin is 10k again what are you going to do now?

Eric CarrPosted
  • Real Estate Broker
  • Los Angeles, CA
  • Posts 655
  • Votes 293

I believe most Russians don't want war. They don't want this war. But the Russian people are being punished by these sanctions. I'm not saying I agree nor disagree. But it's not Putin that is suffering. In fact, I bet that he had been preparing for exactly this, long in advance.

How would you feel if the government told Google not to deliver email to Russian citizens? Because of sanctions.

Post: Do you invest in Bitcoin / Cryptocurrency?

Eric CarrPosted
  • Real Estate Broker
  • Los Angeles, CA
  • Posts 655
  • Votes 293
Quote from @Dylan Barnard:
Quote from @Darnell Duncan:

I think it'd be naive to be so dismissive of cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology. I understand the idea behind being skeptical about change, or anything that you're unfamiliar with, but it's pretty obvious there's a lot of value there. 

At the end of the day, all investments are risks. Whether it's in real estate, stocks, business, cryptocurrency etc. What you decide to do should be based on your own situation and your own sense of risk management, not any one else's.

I think blockchain technology will be well apart of our future.


 No one is dismissing the value of the technology, just the value of the coin itself. Like someone mentioned above, PayPal is using Blockchain - I can get behind that idea because they are a company with underlying cash flow and profits. But buying a coin just because you think it will go up in value is reckless in my opinion. There is a fine line between investing and gambling and buying a coin falls on the gambling side IMO. 

 Everyone is welcome to their opinion
What does PayPal do? It facilitates purchases and monetary transfers. Also does so using bitcoin. 

What does bitcoin do? It is an immutable ledger on the most secure network on the planet, is censorship resistant, can't be manipulated or confiscated, hardest form of money ever known.  And it facilitates purchases and instant instant money transfers - for free. And gives a person total ownership of their wealth. Seems pretty damn valuable to me. 

 The Internet is only valuable because of the company's I mentioned? I disagree. The Internet has value because it is valuable. For one, it allows people to send messages, music, pictures, instantly, video chat, and basically for free.  Sound familiar? 
And if it wasn't Google, Amazon, and the rest, it would be someone else. The Internet has always had inherent value. 

However, there were people like Paul Krugman, who thought the Internet was a passing fad.  There were lots of people and "analysts" and "investors" who thought Amazon would never survive. I believe most of the world thought that a stranger would never get into someone else's car nor rent someone's house over the Internet. 

Do you see a pattern?

 If you still don't believe owning a piece of the Internet is more valuable than a company that is built on top of it... Would you rather own a building in times square, or the entire block that everything is built on top of?  



Post: Bitcoin is 10k again what are you going to do now?

Eric CarrPosted
  • Real Estate Broker
  • Los Angeles, CA
  • Posts 655
  • Votes 293
Quote from @Terrell Garren:

Guess I'll add this to the reasons I think Bitcoin is a ridiculously unjustified technology. 

Treasury's Janet Yellen Urged to Ensure Crypto Isn’t Russia Sanctions Workaround - Bloomberg

 Then you should also consider the fact that 20 million dollars in bitcoin have been donated to Ukrainians, who have been locked out of their bank accounts and credit cards and have nothing otherwise. 

In fact the Ukrainian government has openly solicited the world to donate using bitcoin. 

Post: Do you invest in Bitcoin / Cryptocurrency?

Eric CarrPosted
  • Real Estate Broker
  • Los Angeles, CA
  • Posts 655
  • Votes 293
Quote from @Joe Splitrock:
Quote from @Eric Carr:

@Dylan Barnard

Google, Amazon, Facebook, windows, ios, PayPal, Visa,  just pieces of computer code. 


 These are not examples of code. They are companies with physical assets, intellectual property, human resources (employees), cash reserves, investments and many revenue streams. They sell products, services or advertising that people pay for. I hope you made this comment off the cuff and don't actually believe that Google is the same Bitcoin. 

My day job is with a company that makes electrical infrastructure for data centers. We sell to Google, Amazon. Microsoft and Visa. They invest hundreds of millions in their infrastructure. Massive data centers on a scale that would take years to replicate. We also sell hardware for crypto mining and the business model is different. Many mining operators are venture capital funds that just deploy for 12-24 month ROI. They look to get a fast return and get out. They may reinvest or move to something else. There are also established companies that are miners like Bitdeer. These are actual companies committed long term to the crypto larger defi business model. They are much more than just Bitcoin. Bitdeer is a company and a business, like Google.

Just understand when you buy Bitcoin that you do not own part of Bitdeer or any miner. You are paying them a fee to transact, so you are their customer. This is part of the risk with crypto. The businesses that actually support crypto are paid with mining and transaction fees. When prices are moving up, there is massive incentive for these companies. When prices plunge, the ROI disappears and miners start shutting down. Smart companies like Bitdeer are diversifying, so even if Bitcoin failed, the can shift the business to other use of blockchain technology.

A better analogy to Bitcoin would be currency trading or futures trading. You are buying something that isn't physical and banking on appreciation by the time you sell it.

Even just comparing software like Windows to Bitcoin, is a bad comparison. Windows is copywrite code owned by Microsoft. People pay to use the code. Bitcoin was released open source and owned by nobody. Anyone can copy, modify or use the code. Had the creator of Bitcoin secured copyright and patent protections, then Bitcoin would be more valuable. There are now considerable patents in the blockchain space, so there are people scrambling to protect IP. You mentioned PayPal, who is one company that does have blockchain patents. It just goes back to my original point that there are companies dealing with Bitcoin, but Bitcoin by itself is not a company. 

 It's all code. They have employees and produce things, all centered around code. By your example, the Internet itself is not a company. But because we have the Internet, we have Google, Facebook, Amazon. 

owning bitcoin is like owning a piece of the Internet. 

Post: Bitcoin is 10k again what are you going to do now?

Eric CarrPosted
  • Real Estate Broker
  • Los Angeles, CA
  • Posts 655
  • Votes 293
Quote from @Andres Vanegas:

I'd leverage myself out as much as possible and buy the dip...but it won't go back to 10k.

 You might have bigger balls than I do!  But I agree about never seeing 10K again. I believe we'd need to see a massive global deflationary event, that would bring down everything - stocks, real estate,  everything. I also believe bitcoin would rebound quickest and would emerge even stronger. 

Just recently we can see there has been heavy accumulation around the 38K range, that's going to be a solid support line. 

Adoption is growing, fundamentals continue to strengthen. 

Post: Do you invest in Bitcoin / Cryptocurrency?

Eric CarrPosted
  • Real Estate Broker
  • Los Angeles, CA
  • Posts 655
  • Votes 293

I'm taking bigger risks than you are?