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All Forum Posts by: Elbert D.

Elbert D. has started 38 posts and replied 627 times.

Post: Help with Little Rock market

Elbert D.
Posted
  • Real Estate Entrepreneur / Investor
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 688
  • Votes 367

Yes. I have family there so I’ll come visit once a month or every other month 

Post: Help with Little Rock market

Elbert D.
Posted
  • Real Estate Entrepreneur / Investor
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 688
  • Votes 367

Hello, Im coming into town Thursday evening and would like to know if I can meet up with a experience realtor who understands the investing side(rentals, fix and flips) of things in the Little Rock market? I would like to meet up and discuss several plans of action to get established into this market. I would like to know if I can meet up sometime Friday if thats not too much to ask?

Post: U.S. Housing Starts Fell 4.0% in July - WSJ

Elbert D.
Posted
  • Real Estate Entrepreneur / Investor
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 688
  • Votes 367

Here in Chicago and it’s subrubs. MFHs are outrageously expensive. Even private owners are selling for a obscene price with the property usually needing a ton of work. The funny thing is there are usually many cranes in the air downtown. Along with them being across the city as well. It makes me also wonder how commercial real estate will be here.....

Post: Wholesaling - Is It About to Change?

Elbert D.
Posted
  • Real Estate Entrepreneur / Investor
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 688
  • Votes 367

Sticking with that 200k example....I want to know how much the rehab is of this property? How big is it? City violations? Back taxes owed? Water bill lien? Is the loan on the house paid off???? I want to know everything. And who’s to say the flipper will actually sell it for sure for 520k lol. Things like this could be potentially a mess for everyone. If it’s not in a B+ area or above that property will could sit for a long time.  Not to mention the closing cost the buyer will have to incur. 

The verdict: not enough information. More is needed. Could be a bad deal for the seller and the buyer both. We don’t know that yet. 

Post: Wholesaling - Is It About to Change?

Elbert D.
Posted
  • Real Estate Entrepreneur / Investor
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 688
  • Votes 367
Originally posted by @Mike B.:
Originally posted by @Elbert D.:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @John K.:

I am not going to comment on the bill or what the state of Illinois thinks it's going to stop, by writing this into law. Instead I will point out some actual facts that should have been considered, prior to wasting taxpayer resources. 

I won't pretend to know the motivation behind the state's desire to draft this bill, because I was never invited to the discussion. I will simply go on a limb and say that one of those factors, was probably this gross misconception that we steal equity, and I would guess that it's this 50% number that has the "ouch" factor. 

It would be my guess that the wholesaling industry makes up less than half of 1% of the overall market, or worse. That alone should have been enough to make anyone realize that this law is going to have zero effect, overall. However, it's easy to say that the investor industry out numbers wholesalers, by a bunch. Would 100x, 1000x or more, be reasonable? 

Now I would suspect that those agents/brokers and investors themselves, that are quick to put a wholesaler on blast for their thievery, utilize the very popular 70% rule when it comes to evaluating a property. This of course means that according to that rule, you should never offer more than 70% of its value. Now I have no idea who came up with this rule, but I feel comfortable in saying that it was NOT a wholesaler. So let's see what that looks like, in real numbers. 

Little bit of a test here.

Subject Property
3/2 1800 sq ft. ARV 200K
Needs the following:  HVAC system replaced and updating of kitchen/baths, paint and floors. No other mechanicals are needed. 

Let's start:
200K ARV * .70 = 140K purchase price. Right out the door 30% equity, GONE!
For those that have actually renovated/updated a home of this size, what are the odds you get this done for 40K? Because if the 50% equity creates the problem, you only have 40k to spend to renovate and state within that 50% equity grab. Of course, this math only works if you do NOT use HML or private money, only if you use cash.

Let's be real. Doing a professional renovation on a 200K home that needs updating and an HVAC system, for 40K, is going to be very very difficult. With over 100 renovations to my credit, I can tell you the only way this stands a chance, is you have a rock start crew that turns this within 3 weeks, or you are stealing the material. 

To summarize my point in paragraph 3. If theft of equity was a strong motivator and investors grossly out number wholesalers, then by the popularity of the 70% rule, it would actually be the investors causing more of this problem, than us wholesalers. The irony that there are many agent/brokers that are investors themselves, and live by this rule, yet preach fiduciary responsibility, is not lost. 

However, I am not going to be the one that criticizes and then not offer an alternative view, in fact, a solution that apparently would satisfy all. 

If there is so much concern over the theft of equity, the solution is real easy. 

To the fine folks of BP that provide this great community for all of us to speak freely and offer advice. 

Would you please dropkick the 70% rule calculator out of the window, because it is causing a lot of stress for those brokers/agents and investors that have an issue with wholesalers bringing 50% deals, but they can only buy at 50%, themselves. 

Are all of you that are actual investors that fix/flip and buy/hold, willing to backup what you are arguing, by promising to only buy at 80% or higher, before repairs?

In the spirit of showing my flexibility, how about 70% or higher, before repairs?  I would be fine with either personally, as a wholesaler or investor. 

If so, please join me in my effort of asking BP to remove this calculator, or at least modifying it to say, 125%? I am open for negotiations, so whatever the majority thinks is fair, I am good with it.

I mean, it's in the best interest of the seller, right? 

for these very reasons wholesaler who have no clue which is unfortunately many.. they tie up property and never close.  thereby hurting sellers who thought they had a deal. and made other financial arranges because this nice wholesaler told them he would close with cash on a day of their choosing.. ever heard that one before LOL 

I agree with U on fix and flip..  buy and hold is different though in a hot market someone may take a 10% discount off of retail and be happy as heck.. 

That’s so funny.....I heard wholesalers telling s guy they can close on his 3 unit stone and brick that he was asking 250k in 7-10 days LOL....I wanna know what title company this guy used because after 3-5 days of the title search being ran that means the buyer has 250k liquid just landing around in a bank LOL  funny because of the time time those wholesalers don’t even have a buyer lined up already. It’s things like that which really p i s s off a lot of people. I don’t say nothing about people whom are new because I was new at a point  but after a year and a half or two and your still doing the exact same thing. That’s saying something. 

With all due respect, just because you can't close in 7-10 days doesn't mean everyone can't. 

I wholesaled a Pilsen property to @Chris Titcomb, he performed in 4 days. I have used @Yan P. to finance several deals within 7 days (He doesn't't prefer it, but always gets it done). I've used Barrister Title, Network Title and GNT Title to close within 7 days on several deals as well. A delay will pop up here and there but it usually has to do with the water reading or zoning cert...not about funds to close.

I agree with everyone in regards to ethics. The bulk of my deals come from time sensitive properties. 

-Someone was left a property that they can't afford via probate and they want out yesterday. They were barely making it with their own bills and now have an additional house filled with expenses that they can't keep up with. 

-Pre-foreclosures with a 30 day or less sale date. If someone doesn't show up with cash right away, the bank takes it and they get nothing.

-Hoarders who are too embarrassed to let you take pictures let alone advertise to the public that they live this way.

-The rental owner whose tenants stopped paying rent and can't afford the mortgage.

-The cancelled/expired listing who was previously lied to by a RE agent and overpriced their house to secure a listing. They are now frustrated, have a bad taste in their mouth in regards to RE agents and just want out.

Quite honestly, the law doesn't affect me negatively as my company is licensed...as a matter of fact, we're working with our lawyer now to see how we can market to wholesalers to sell their deals for them. When life hands you lemons...

Hello Mike hows it going. Long time no see...i know @Chris Titcomb he’s a good guy.  I never said it can’t happen. It’s rare that it has in my experience and the many deals I been in. And I never once mention it was because of funds. The closing could be held up by many things a lot times more than not its small things like water cert , etc...my point was it more often than not closing 7-10 days isn’t common unless you know what your doing and even then it’s not like every closing will for sure happen in 7-10 days because as a wholesaler your the middleman. Things could be going with the buyer or things could be going on with the seller. I see some wild stuff....

Post: Wholesaling - Is It About to Change?

Elbert D.
Posted
  • Real Estate Entrepreneur / Investor
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 688
  • Votes 367
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @John K.:

I am not going to comment on the bill or what the state of Illinois thinks it's going to stop, by writing this into law. Instead I will point out some actual facts that should have been considered, prior to wasting taxpayer resources. 

I won't pretend to know the motivation behind the state's desire to draft this bill, because I was never invited to the discussion. I will simply go on a limb and say that one of those factors, was probably this gross misconception that we steal equity, and I would guess that it's this 50% number that has the "ouch" factor. 

It would be my guess that the wholesaling industry makes up less than half of 1% of the overall market, or worse. That alone should have been enough to make anyone realize that this law is going to have zero effect, overall. However, it's easy to say that the investor industry out numbers wholesalers, by a bunch. Would 100x, 1000x or more, be reasonable? 

Now I would suspect that those agents/brokers and investors themselves, that are quick to put a wholesaler on blast for their thievery, utilize the very popular 70% rule when it comes to evaluating a property. This of course means that according to that rule, you should never offer more than 70% of its value. Now I have no idea who came up with this rule, but I feel comfortable in saying that it was NOT a wholesaler. So let's see what that looks like, in real numbers. 

Little bit of a test here.

Subject Property
3/2 1800 sq ft. ARV 200K
Needs the following:  HVAC system replaced and updating of kitchen/baths, paint and floors. No other mechanicals are needed. 

Let's start:
200K ARV * .70 = 140K purchase price. Right out the door 30% equity, GONE!
For those that have actually renovated/updated a home of this size, what are the odds you get this done for 40K? Because if the 50% equity creates the problem, you only have 40k to spend to renovate and state within that 50% equity grab. Of course, this math only works if you do NOT use HML or private money, only if you use cash.

Let's be real. Doing a professional renovation on a 200K home that needs updating and an HVAC system, for 40K, is going to be very very difficult. With over 100 renovations to my credit, I can tell you the only way this stands a chance, is you have a rock start crew that turns this within 3 weeks, or you are stealing the material. 

To summarize my point in paragraph 3. If theft of equity was a strong motivator and investors grossly out number wholesalers, then by the popularity of the 70% rule, it would actually be the investors causing more of this problem, than us wholesalers. The irony that there are many agent/brokers that are investors themselves, and live by this rule, yet preach fiduciary responsibility, is not lost. 

However, I am not going to be the one that criticizes and then not offer an alternative view, in fact, a solution that apparently would satisfy all. 

If there is so much concern over the theft of equity, the solution is real easy. 

To the fine folks of BP that provide this great community for all of us to speak freely and offer advice. 

Would you please dropkick the 70% rule calculator out of the window, because it is causing a lot of stress for those brokers/agents and investors that have an issue with wholesalers bringing 50% deals, but they can only buy at 50%, themselves. 

Are all of you that are actual investors that fix/flip and buy/hold, willing to backup what you are arguing, by promising to only buy at 80% or higher, before repairs?

In the spirit of showing my flexibility, how about 70% or higher, before repairs?  I would be fine with either personally, as a wholesaler or investor. 

If so, please join me in my effort of asking BP to remove this calculator, or at least modifying it to say, 125%? I am open for negotiations, so whatever the majority thinks is fair, I am good with it.

I mean, it's in the best interest of the seller, right? 

for these very reasons wholesaler who have no clue which is unfortunately many.. they tie up property and never close.  thereby hurting sellers who thought they had a deal. and made other financial arranges because this nice wholesaler told them he would close with cash on a day of their choosing.. ever heard that one before LOL 

I agree with U on fix and flip..  buy and hold is different though in a hot market someone may take a 10% discount off of retail and be happy as heck.. 

That’s so funny.....I heard wholesalers telling s guy they can close on his 3 unit stone and brick that he was asking 250k in 7-10 days LOL....I wanna know what title company this guy used because after 3-5 days of the title search being ran that means the buyer has 250k liquid just landing around in a bank LOL  funny because of the time time those wholesalers don’t even have a buyer lined up already. It’s things like that which really p i s s off a lot of people. I don’t say nothing about people whom are new because I was new at a point  but after a year and a half or two and your still doing the exact same thing. That’s saying something. 

Post: Wholesaling - Is It About to Change?

Elbert D.
Posted
  • Real Estate Entrepreneur / Investor
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 688
  • Votes 367

@Chris Martin I guess that’s why people in those states are thriving right? A simple google search will explain and show how Cali is not in a good stance economically. Also there are many many West coast investors who have bought properties in the Midwest due to the high cost of living in those states. So that’s the actual reality check. 

Post: Wholesaling - Is It About to Change?

Elbert D.
Posted
  • Real Estate Entrepreneur / Investor
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 688
  • Votes 367
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Chris Martin:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Chris Martin:

Lots of people are missing the point. 

The law doesn't say everyone must get a license. The IL law defines, or maybe a better way to put it is the law now more clearly refines, the definition of what "broker" means. 

Many state RECs frown upon "self dealing" because it has proven to be problematic. And (brokers can correct me if not) some E&O policies have clauses relating to self dealing coverage. The reality is that investor transactions make up a small part of real estate brokerage transactions, yet account for a big part of brokerage violations. In a similar way that's partly why, for instance, OO loan have better terms. NOO default rates are higher.

This is America, but I need a license to fly an airplane, a license to drive a car, a different license to drive a tractor trailer, etc. I don't need to get a CDL to receive or send a package, I just use a service where the drivers have a CDL. 

Chris to me this has some similarities with sub prime whip lash.. Not sure if you know of or recall NACA they are still in operation. Their make narrative was that subprime was aimed at certain segment of the borrowing public. They went on to have rallies and demonstrations at this big companies offices and even picketed the CEO's houses.. it made national news.

I think the whip lash here is along the same lines that as it relates to wholesaling in IL or Chicago specific its dominated in certain areas. Like subprime was.. and the person way up in the thread from CO that sited the seller selling a home that was wholesaled twice for 150k more than she got.. / or they got..  These issues come to light politicians get into it and boom you have dodd frank all over again.. 

And as one of the attorneys that is from Chicago stated and its that way in  Oregon they chase down complaints .. And I think as he stated what your going to see is the bigger wholesale players have far to much invested in their business's to simply not get a license.. they can buy their own company they can run without E and O if they wish.. I did for years..  And then Brokers / agents educating their buyers and sellers and that's were you probably get the complaints coming from.. As one who has worked in Chicago though from my personal experience you get into their system and its pretty rough stuff.

I've sold 3 or 4 properties to people who obtained NACA loans. One was to a buyer, represented by a broker, and unsolicited. That was about 8-9 years ago. The buyer paid the broker's commission and I sold at the (then) current appraised value.

I think you can always go to extremes. Deregulate by industry and end up with Enron and Lehman Brothers type catastrophic events. Regulate too far and you interfere with commerce. The bill, as written, will result (as IDed by Bob formerly at IDFPR) in selective enforcement of some aspects of law and/or REC policy. To me that's bad public policy. That's why I posted what I did. 

If the goal is to avoid "ripping people off" then the state could require that transactions executed by unlicensed parties obtain fair market value of a property by using some method of appraisal or CMA-type value. Many other states do that. The NC Home Foreclosure Rescue Scam legislation requires a buyer (rescue agent) present an appraisal and an offer of at least 50% of FMV.

But I think the bill's goal was established or heavily influenced by NAR, and that's why this legislation appears the way it is. If you are NAR, then the regulatory structure is the answer with no exceptions. It's mot the answer I endorse... but I'm not in IL, a state where all three counties I checked charge the public for public access to public documents.

OR WA and CA passed the same foreclosure rescue laws.. that was the bulk of my business pre 07 when the law took affect it came in even before the big ole crash.. so we stopped.. the penalties are criminal. part of that was from the guys in Florida charging 1k and we solve the problem and they never did a thing and people lost their homes thinking this company was fixing it.. I bought many at court house steps from folks when I showed up that were shocked.. those guys were bad actors all the way.. I sold some through NACA as well interesting people there at NACA.. I think another part of this is that assingments etc while always with us.. its become a full blown business model with the guru's and as such it has gotten much more attention.

Exactly. Those 3 States OR, Cali and WA are all 3 liberal badly ran states. But that's one of my biggest issues is these gurus 97% of them are liars. more and more of them keep popping up. "This guy has built a 100 million dollar business flipping and or wholesaling houses" I laugh and immediately walk out if I'm at a REIA meeting or a event that says that. I went to one of the....Actually probably the biggest guru here in Chicago when I didn't know anything and there were hundreds of people there at that event. Then it occurred to me. How are all these people going be doing the same exact thing. Going after the same houses. In the same areas. Marketing the same way..... Then he mentioned that inventory is never a problem and deals are plentiful. No matter what. Even though I was brand new. I still have common sense and basic knowledge of economics. Sure enough. Years laters I see now how these gurus mix in lies with the truth and get people hooked. Lol quite funny once I think about it. Especially now knowing what I know about the industry itself and how people are. Everyone screws everyone along the lines within this industry. Don't Trust anyone all the way and always verify. It's like you have to cover all of your own bases.

Anyway. The truly greats in anything will always find ways to continue to be successful. This is just a bump in the road for me. Will adjust and continue being successful within the industry.

Post: Wholesaling - Is It About to Change?

Elbert D.
Posted
  • Real Estate Entrepreneur / Investor
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 688
  • Votes 367
Originally posted by @Irina Belkofer:

@Elbert D. you get all the things together but it’s specific only to wholesalers.

Flippers are buying houses, improve them and sell - under their name (LLC etc)

Wholesalers are marketologostsjust like RE agents: they are looking for listing to sell and of their main point is “cut off unnecessary comissions and sell for cash”.

Do sellers realize what kind of comissions the wholesaler will makeoff them? Besides, 90% of my investors are cash buyers. So, when I find the property to sell, I offer to the seller 3 options: 

1. I can list your house for $100K

2. I can sell it off market for cash and no inspection for $75K

3. I can buy it on terms for $110K (no money down)

They know what's the market value is because just like any agent, I do CMA for them but including distressed sales if their house in such condition. I can offer them even to flip their house which adds time, money but will be sold, let's say $180K.

When people make an informed decision, it’s not a crime. When you tell them your house worth $200K when you know it’s $300K - you’re preying on their vulnerability. 

Your “they are adults and should know better” won’t stand a trial in a court or at RE Board, Division or whatever the authority is in your state. If you’re a licensed professional. That’s why it’s easier to get people out of their money and hide behind that mantra

 I see what your saying. But that’s not how I go about wholesaling if I’m wholesaling. Also my business model isn’t like the usual wholesaler that leaves and dumps the house. If they are able to sell it. In real estate there is usually more than one way to do things and add unique value. 

Post: Wholesaling - Is It About to Change?

Elbert D.
Posted
  • Real Estate Entrepreneur / Investor
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 688
  • Votes 367

@Chris DeSisto we have similar views on this matter. And yes it was reported the bill got signed. 

As I look on realtor.com now I see a bunch of overprice inventory and some overprice rubbish with the descriptions of ”nvestors special or handyman special” along with one picture or three pictures of the outside. These pictures and the listing must have been put up by such a hard working person..... I really don’t see how this is suppose to help the Illinois real estate market.....so now you mean to tell me not only does Illinois have high taxes and high insurance rates. But now your regulating and cutting off the number of fix and flippers and wholesalers? Wow......that was smart. 

I wonder why the news didn’t also report property taxes jumping  about 10% next year. Not to mention the slow job market that’s here in this state. 

Ohhhhh wait. I see what their doing. They want to turn Illinois into a state ran similar like NY and Cali. What a awesome idea. Make everyone renters and regulate everything and tax everything until you can’t anymore.  Such a great plan.....

Yet. No one seems to answer my question about what about the influx of people that’s going be licensed.....I can guarantee there will be more complaining once realtors who were making a little money see their checks cut by a lot now that everyone is licensed to do deals and now retail side of things. Does IL really need more estate brokers??? That’s not to more wholesalers and or flippers are needed but now that there will be such a huge pool of people licensed(supply) with only a handful actually making money(just like lawyers) with little supply of inventory. what will this accomplish actually??? The only thing happened is now IL cut out people/business owners who took that avenue serious and left them out of business. If they are only operating in IL. Wow way to go IL ^___^