Skip to content
×
PRO
Pro Members Get Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
$0
TODAY
$69.00/month when billed monthly.
$32.50/month when billed annually.
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
Already a Pro Member? Sign in here
Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties. Try BiggerPockets PRO.
x
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: Elizabeth M Williams

Elizabeth M Williams has started 8 posts and replied 68 times.

Post: Canadian / US Partnership

Elizabeth M WilliamsPosted
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Posts 79
  • Votes 63

@Account Closed I'm in the same boat. What did you end up doing?

@Stephen Fryer can you elaborate on what you mean by 'partners?' I've got an investor who'd like to invest into some of the syndications I raise capital for. I'm hearing the LP structure is the way to go. Can you offer any advice on best way to do this? He's also speaking with a CPA, but then he also heard about investing via an LP set up by a Canadian company who operates as an Exempt Market Dealer, thereby circumventing the need to actually set up an LP, himself, but invest through one already set up, instead. It feels like there might be an added layer of risk for him, vs investing directly with the operators through his own LP. Thoughts appreciated!

Post: First time foreign investor from Sri Lanka

Elizabeth M WilliamsPosted
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Posts 79
  • Votes 63

@Account Closed hi there! Stumbled upon your post while searching for something else in the forum. First of all, I LOOOOVE Sri Lanka! Got married there, in Boossa, 2 years ago, just before covid hit. Been there 5 times, would love to go one more time before I leave Dubai. It's my happy place. Funny enough, we tried to buy the place we got married in, but couldn't agree to the original down payment. Shame, really, as we loved it. A local ended up buying it. I still stay in touch with my friends in the area, and so sad how much your country got impacted by the loss of tourism revenue. Looks like it's finally opening, though, thank goodness!

Did you ever buy a place in the US? You should also consider multifamily syndications, a much easier way to get into US real estate, to be honest. You'd need to set up an llc & itin with a cpa, and get a US bank account, and can go from there.

But having said that, aren't there plenty of great opportunities in Sri Lanka? The Colombo market was doing so well before covid hit, and we looked at places further down south, too. 

@Jason Shackleton let's connect. I know a cpa conversant in both jurisdictions, and have also stumbled upon a Canadian-based exempt market dealer, who might offer an easier solution for my investor, even though it would mean I would lose him as a client. To be honest, it needs to be what's best for him. Going to dig deeper into it today, and would appreciate your lawyer contact, too. My client mentioned the Canadian-based dealer, but something he said about it doesn't jive with what the CPA told me, so need to investigate further, as I said. 

Post: Looking for help with a mortgage

Elizabeth M WilliamsPosted
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Posts 79
  • Votes 63

@Shai Flax I think it was right around 4.5%, so definitely at a premium. We only bought it as a placeholder in case we want to live in the US, but for real estate as investment, we invest in syndications. 

@Todd Goedeke not sure where 12% upfront figure comes from. Equity placement fees are much lower in RE than in most private equity deals, and I've never seen a deal with more than 3.5% for that, which is on the high side. I don't know of any referral fees, it's a job, which involves a great deal of time & expense, and brings a lot of value to investors, as it is the job of the capital raiser to research opportunities, vet, educate, manage investor relations on an ongoing basis, and ensure suitability for investors.

Also, appreciation is only one way of delivering returns. Value add renovations, streamlining operational costs, acquiring off market/below market, rent increases (inline with current market & post reno, creating appreciation via increased NOI), incremental revenue streams, operating in growth markets (driven by data) - these are all ways to deliver returns.

The asset management fees tend to be along the lines of 1-2%, and sponsors make the lion's share of their returns on exit, after distributing returns to investors. There are hurdles to be made before they make any significant returns, an waterfall structures, as well. 

I've also seen a number of bad deals come across my way. But I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole. 

Re your comment about why aren't people on a BP soapbox? I can only speculate that it's for the following reasons - these deals often oversubscribe, investors who want in very often can't get in, as so many investors from previous deals roll into new ones. Not everyone is generous in sharing. BP is pretty strict on promotion/naming deals/syndicators. Having said that, it was on BP that I first was told about syndications. Many of the investors aren't on BP, many haven't even heard of it. Those invested, working with one capital raiser (who can often access a variety of syndicators), aren't active on BP, or perhaps are merely to seek out other info, eg tax related. 

I really can't speak to that, but can point you to data once, showing that MF investment is smashing records - 

Q3 2021 US Multifamily Figures | CBRE

Lastly, as I said, happy to take this discussion offline, and share info with you that way. In composing this, just glanced at one of our operators, have exited over 30 deals, over 30% IRR to investors. As I said, investors tend to get 15% annualized on the low end, ranging up to 80% on the high end. Me, I invest anticipating the low end, the rest is a bonus. For those who don't want to participate in the equity split, plenty of deals with 9-10% class a shares, with same tax benefits. I'm invested in a few of these, myself. Heck of a lot less volatility than the dividend producing shares/CEFs in the stock market, a lot less capital reduction exposure, IMHO.

@Todd Goedeke it was actually the other way around for me. I spent months digging into buying other investment properties, vs investing in a syndication, and spoke with cpas, lawyers, other investors (of single families, apartments, multi families, and syndications), capital raisers, and syndicators (small and large), and got a lot of perspectives and advice from all of them. Met some lovely people along the way. Once I understood the ins and outs of it, and having been a landlord for 25 years now, I invested. So my 'bias' started with my own money. Not only did I invest, but I wanted to work in the space, as I, as well as a LOT of investors out there, find it a very attractive alternative to the time and energy and expense involved with sourcing, renovating, managing these deals. 

I invested a lot of time and money to become SEC registered, specializing in private placement of capital. The exam process was tough. I wouldn't have gone through this, in my early 50's, if I wasn't so passionate about it. I'm not alone in this. Institutional investors are paying a premium to buy up these portfolios, as it's a stable way for them to buy cash flows. Plenty of buyers for the smaller deals, too. Who doesn't like a well-managed cash flowing property?

Re mentioning one deal, I said it was an outlier, and the other range was accurate. I cannot mention specific deals for a few reasons - one, I'm an SEC rep, as I said. That means I have to follow stringent guidelines with respect to advertising/marketing. Two, Bigger Pockets has very stringent guidelines, and I've had comments taken down in the past when I was more specific. Happy to chat off the forum, if you'd like. 

You mention commissions. Any private equity raise has an acquisition fee, whether you work directly or indirectly with a sponsor of the deal. This is industry standard, so many brokers/advisors simply work as part of investor relations, so fees aren't increased by working via a broker. And returns to investors are net of all fees, so if someone invests $100k into a private equity deal, they get $100k worth of capital in the deal, plus distributions and returns derived from a capital event. 

Yes, accredited investors could go out and find their own deals. But that is active investing. I have friends who do syndications, and I admire them for it. It's a LOT more work, and often they get hit some obstacles on their first few deals, without the benefit of experience, which has an impact on either their returns or their exit strategy, or both. Some get lucky and knock it out of the park on their first deal or two. Thankfully there is a good network of people out there helping each other out as they progress along the learning curve. 

It's really a matter of what you want to do, isn't it? Some people LOVE buying a bunch of rentals. Some love flipping. Some form syndications with friends and family money, and go on to be very successful. But a growing number of investors are happy to find the right sponsors, who have a lot of experience on their team, who have exited many deals, who have already cut their teeth on painful lessons. Having spoken with friends who are syndicators (ie active), their returns on their first few deals aren't usually superior to returns that investors get with established syndicators. Personally, I would happily have a team who knows their market, has contractors and property managers and banking relationships well-established, do the work for me, because I'm able to earn returns passively (with a lot less volatility than the stock market). I mentioned one deal, but there have been several with that operator with similar returns, and the range in other markets has been what I mentioned in my previous comment, with multiple operators, over multiple exits. I'm just mindful of my wording in this forum. Plenty of other capital raisers here on BP who've delivered similar results for their investor base too.  

I will also add that investors are nearly always repeat investors. Once investors find good partners/syndicators, they tend to stick around for years, especially when deals have been exiting within a few years, and they can roll proceeds over into the next deal. And I'm not speaking just about myself. I know a good few people in this business, and their investor base is loyal.

I have a lot of respect for and am constantly impressed by the clever real estate investors/entrepreneurs out there. There are many ways to skin a cat. For accredited investors (though not all deals are limited to accredited investors), it's nice to plant those investment 'seeds' across multiple markets, in multiple sectors, getting the upside of appreciation/depreciation/tax advantages/distributions that real estate offers, and passively doing it via syndications is a model that works for many. I just sold a house, worked with my cpa on tax planning, and invested straight into 5 deals. 3 were with syndicators I raise for, 2 were not, as there are a lot of interesting opportunities out there in commercial real estate, and I'm always open to new opportunities for myself and clients, some of which are outside of the niche I work in. If I had more money I would have liked to invest in a farmland deal I found, as I really am a fan of diversifying across location and asset type. 

As a footnote, my husband is Australian, and we have, after a lot of digging around, found a few syndicators/funds in Australia, that we plan to invest in, via his retirement account, as well, which are not multifamily. So yes, it would be fair to say that I'm a big fan of this approach :)

Horses for courses, as they say. If what you're doing works and you enjoy it, stick with it. But please respect this approach, too. A lot of work goes into vetting deals/syndicators, to mitigate risk as much as possible for investors, which is why good private equity raisers have a base that sticks with them for many years.

Happy holidays & I wish you continued success :)

@Todd Goedeke there are a lot of syndicators who've gone multiple cycles with investors, as I'm sure @Paul Moore would attest. In picking the right syndicator, those fees are well worth the trade off of time & unexpected expenses, and often outperform individual real estate deals. We have had investors do exceptionally well in Phoenix, for example, doubling their investment in 18 months to 2 years, and those investors are taking advantage of 1031 exchange to move from one exit into the next deal. That's a pretty impressive return, and an outlier, but investors have normally had returns of 15-30% annualized, consistently, through multiple cycles. 

@Dave Foster yes you are right. I have worked with my CPA to do as much as I can to mitigate capital gains taxes from the sale of one of our investment properties, because, after ton of 'spreadsheeting' various scenarios, even with a minor tax hit (ie not being able to/not wanting to use 1031 exchange from my house sale to roll into a TIC/DST/other 'like' asset) our capital will still outperform returns I would have had if just leaving it in this rental. Leverage is a beautiful thing in real estate, and I want to put that money to work for us even more than it has been. So to echo what you said, I'm referring to the ability to 1031 from one syndication into the next, with the same operator. As you likely already know, it's pretty much impossible to find a DST that outperforms, if even matches, the returns of syndications (have done a lot of projections with those, too), and they are expensive, rarely offer value add opportunities, and have a long hold period. They operate more like a bond proxy, not at all on par with what most MF investor are looking for, in terms of wealth-building.

It again underscores the need to partner with operators who have gone through a few cycles, offer conservative projections (better to under promise and over deliver), and whose objectives align with those of their investor base.

Echoing the comments of others. Most do through individual, and plenty of tax advantages already mentioned, in addition to what's becoming more and more of a trend, which is rolling proceeds from one deal to the next, ie a 1031exchange. A lot of our investors are starting to do this now, and it's my personal plan to do so, as well. That also means sticking with syndicators through a few investment cycles, highlighting the need to do proper due diligence on deals. And as @Charles LeMaire said, your cpa can help you create something akin to a bond laddering strategy over time.