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All Forum Posts by: Douglas Gratz

Douglas Gratz has started 33 posts and replied 254 times.

Post: My New Construction Journal From Start To Finish

Douglas GratzPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 260
  • Votes 145

@Caroline Gerardo "Bad loans closed on inflated valuations in 2021 and 2022 same as 2006/7. Lenders hurried and sloppy"

you really think so? Getting loans ever since 2008 has been the strictest thing I have ever seen. When my finances were almost perfect in 2017 I still had to have a co-signer to meet the debt/income ratio....Maybe private lenders were giving out sloppy loans but you would know more, it says lender next to your name lol....

I haven't seen price cuts or a slowdown in northern liberties at all. Homes are still selling within a month. 10/27 a house sold the day it was listed for 1.4M, I feel it is insulated from the macro environment to an extent given the high desire to live there and limited supply of homes .

I see your point though and agree .

Post: My New Construction Journal From Start To Finish

Douglas GratzPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 260
  • Votes 145
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
Quote from @Douglas Gratz:

What do you think @Bruce Woodruff you have always been brutally honest. If I sell know I think I could make 200k?


I may not be the best person to ask this of, but at least you know I will not blow smoke up your skirt.

You mention taking a 'low number loss' just to get exposure and experience. I would say no. You can get both of those other ways and keep your money. Unless you have real deep pockets and the loss literally means nothing to you, but even then it sets a bad precedent in your mindset.

If this deal isn't going to work, just suck it up and move on...there will be others. It isn't just losing the money you should consider here, you are losing time (which is of ultimate value, and not replaceable) and putting yourself under a great deal of stress. None of us need that in our lives......

Just my .02, but best wished in whatever you decide.

PS - Next project, start smaller and let some of us run your numbers up front for you :-)


The chance of taking a loss is extremely low. And yes I know of opportunity cost, one of the few things I remember from school lol, but one of the good things in REI is that its not extremely hard to focus on more than one project at a time. A no my pockets are not that deep, I sold my home for the downpayment of the lots and two rentals to cover interest on the loan for the lots. So thats where my real loss with come from, if I do not move forward and sell, id just have to use the proceeds to rebuy a few rentals and wait a bit to buy my own house. To sell would mean I had regressed , not that I cant come back easy from it, just would suck due to such a waste of time and energy and hope.

You know what, why is it so hard for me to follow logic. The wise move is obvious (selling) , emotions and attachment are a powerful thing. Its one reason I really like Buddhist Philosphy, takes a-lot of practice though. I am attached to how much work I put into it and afraid to say I failed. Pride, I have been talking about this project to all my friends and family for ever, guess its not that bad to just say that it ended up not working out because of uncontrollable economic forces...

Post: My New Construction Journal From Start To Finish

Douglas GratzPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 260
  • Votes 145

11/7/22

I totally got side tracked...When I logged on I wanted to just say, waiting is the absolute worst when you have been waiting for a year from lending company to lending company. For those of you who are new, when getting a loan , you a loan officer who collects ALOT of information on you. In the case of new construction I have found they really care about experience. The only spot where I lacked and would have had all companies say no, which is why I brought my builder on as a partner. Other than experience you have budget, tax returns, bank statements, IDs, personal financial statement, proof of everything on your personal financial statement, real estate schedule, social, they run your credit WHICH I LEARNED A TRICK from one of the lenders I dealt with...

Having hard credit pulls is no good for your credit or for getting loans, having a lot of hard pulls in a short period sends a bad signs to banks. Here is the work around, tell them you will do your own soft pull, if underwriting approves using it, then they can do the hard pull and if it all matches up you are good to go. If you do it the other way around like I did until I learned this, you will get hard pulls which brought down my credit just later to get rejected by the underwriters.

Anyway once it gets to the underwriter stage , you wait and at his point OMG is it tough, time is running out so I cant wait too much longer.  Luckily I am dealing with a non-bank to which they look at a-lot of different things and have said based on my hard credit pull, its just formality from here, but I have heard that before so waiting = NERVE WRECKING...only because of how many times I had to wait this year, normally its not that bad. They said 3 weeks today and we should be at closing if approved so even though I am leaning toward selling, its not final. 

Tomorrows election will play a large role in my decision.....To be continued

Post: My New Construction Journal From Start To Finish

Douglas GratzPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 260
  • Votes 145

11/7/22

Spoke with the institution again today and they gave me a term sheet. After LTV I get $1,200,000 however, 170k comes out to pay off my house because they want it as collateral and 100k goes into interest reserves. I have $200,000 so that should make up the difference. At the same time, negotiations are not over, I very might get the loan increased.

But the BP community has me just about to sell the lots. @Caroline Gerardo said we are worse than 2008. @Mike Smith says I am mistaken that riche people are not affected by rate increases. I don't think I mean that exactly, I guess what I meant to say is there are reckless rich people out there. I am headed in the direction of selling because I have family, the risk get worse by the day. I mean I still think regardless if I cant get the 1.8-2M I am looking for, I do think at the cost of the loan I could easily sell it for and take about 150k loss. It has more to do with than just money @Bruce Woodruff, yes I have re-run the take offs, and everyone dont get me wrong if I knew I was only making 100-200k, then its me more about the money (in that I would sell) but I am in this for the experience , get known and know people, and make a profit. If I take the risk and can keep it the loss at a low number (given everyone saying its worse than 2008) I might keep on chugging, but my spirits are low right now....

What do you think @Bruce Woodruff you have always been brutally honest. If I sell know I think I could make 200k?

Post: My New Construction Journal From Start To Finish

Douglas GratzPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 260
  • Votes 145
Quote from @Caroline Gerardo:

Still got you in my prayers. Make the best decision for you. 

This market is worse than 2008 with all the same problems. 

 @Caroline Gerardo what are your reasons to think this?

Post: My New Construction Journal From Start To Finish

Douglas GratzPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 260
  • Votes 145

10/29/22

Quick update, and let me tell you, its about to get real! Did I fail?

So on October 27th after a lot of thought, around 11pm I called my father so that I could talk to him about how I was feeling.  The call was to tell him the bank is taking to long, it should not take as long as it has and it was time to sell the land  the longer I wait the, with rates rising, the less I will be able to sell the land if I could even sell at this point......telling him  that I failed and how bad it feels to feel defeated after all the hard work and money I put in.  To date, I sold my home during the boom and profited 60k and I sold 3 of my rentals for a total positive cash flow of 160k all of which went towards this investment. I was talking to him and was like "I regressed father, I owned a personal home and now I rent, I had 12 units and now I have 8 units, and lastly I am out 220k (included the 160 from selling things) " I said "Dad I feel horrible, I put so much into this heart and soul and I am going to end up with a big loss, nothing ever goes smooth for me" I went into a little pitty party because I swear I have to work 4x as hard as the next person on the same things because of my luck, and of course I get the land of a life time at such a discount, and I cant finish it off :(....

At the same time I was also telling him, how am I supposed to feel? In truth, I did everything I could.  I got the land at a great deal, I subdivided it to maximize profits, had an exit plan, went though all scenario, and overall in buying the land I made a very good educated investment and it turns out, it was just not the right time, when I bought it, all was good, but who could have foreseen what was to come with Ukraine and other uncontrollable factors. Maybe I could have for-seen inflation, but I did not. At the end of the conversation, I did not feel that bad because I know I made a good investment and did my UTMOST best, I cant control what I cant control. I learned so much! still will make enough to pay off all my debt, made so many connections with banks, lenders, loan officers, other investors, and builders. I would not have created a network like this had I not tried. And this network will help me expand. The lenders both hard money and "a" bank believe in me, so when the time comes, I know have the ability to quickly say yes to deals knowing one of the above will give me a mortgage on it with 20% down.

Prior to this, i was always buying my rentals with cash and doing a cashout refi 6 months later where as now, I can use the 20% down and with 100k buy 5 rentals! before I could only do 1 or 2 every year because I had to wait 6 months in between. SO THATS HUGE and thats why this new perspective has lifted my defeat because now I can really get to work and expand 10x faster than before.  If I come across I nice piece of land, I have the lenders lined up if I have a profitable project, so that to is HUGE. So yeah I lost my personal home and 3 rentals, making just enough cash to pay off my debts, but its not that bad ya know. PERSPECTIVE IS EVERYTHING.

I am not going to lie though, in making the decision to sell, I was very conflicted, I wanted to wait longer and longer because the thought of admitting defeat was horrible, its not easy to throw in the towel.

HOWEVER I happened to speak to soon. the next day 10/28/22 the bank called! and later that day I had the term sheet and a binding commitment letter. When I first talked about how I found a bank at 6%, same bank, but with rates up, its up to 10%. Thats okay, I used that number in my prospectus anyway. SOOOO we are getting closer FINALLY.  I really needed that phone call, even with all the good that came from failing, it was hard to swallow. Thankfully I do not have to admit defeat just yet :) Until next time, I will keep you posted, take care!

Post: First rental property... I am nervous!

Douglas GratzPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 260
  • Votes 145

Th@Demetrius Harrell Thats awesome man! congratulations on the start of your journey! If you go a good deal, your rental is always a home run so long as you keep it occupied. I do section 8 over here in Philadelphia. People always have bad things to say about it, and I would say that for anything, sometimes , if your not careful and you get a bad tenant. But section 8 is recession proof, or booming at recession since people are low on money. What more can you ask for.

I buy mainly Multi-family like duplex's and triplex's mainly duplex's at the moment, each cash flows after mortgage and all expenses around $800-$1000 and the government sends me the check each month, your going to love having a rental and building on off of it, good stuff man! if you ever have any questions, don't hesitate. 

Post: My New Construction Journal From Start To Finish

Douglas GratzPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 260
  • Votes 145

@Bruce Woodruff if I had the capital at a lower interest rate, I would be holding the land for 2 years before starting at this point, I really dont like the economic climate at ALL, more variables at one time than I have ever seen

Post: My New Construction Journal From Start To Finish

Douglas GratzPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 260
  • Votes 145

@Bruce Woodruff The building permit or separate permit for this stage? If its a seperate permit, I will have my builder start the paperwork however, I am worried to start before everything is locked in. Why waste more money, I will know more tomorrow, but I am getting impatient with the bank and might end up selling the lots to a buyer who has been asking me for them for a while now, he is not going anywhere, he plans to hold them for a few years, so the market is not scaring him off, he knows their worth will just grow

Post: My New Construction Journal From Start To Finish

Douglas GratzPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 260
  • Votes 145

@Bruce Woodruff I am well aware :/