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All Forum Posts by: Douglas Gratz

Douglas Gratz has started 33 posts and replied 254 times.

Post: My New Construction Journal From Start To Finish

Douglas GratzPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 260
  • Votes 145
Quote from @Derek Bell:

@Douglas Gratz

What’s the latest on your project? 


 Unfortunately I had to sell, with banks getting strict with loans and uncertainty of what’s going to happen in the economy, absolutely no one would lend. Pre-sold didn’t matter one bit. I would have taken 15% loan, but there was nothing. Talked to over 20 lenders (hurt my credit with the hard inquiries) but what you gonna do.

Did my best, learned a lot, and met some good people that can be of help with other projects , like a no doc lender on multi family homes. Hard pill to swallow, this was my ticket, ya know, but it is what it is

Post: Insights on Section 8 as a landlord/Investor

Douglas GratzPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 260
  • Votes 145
Quote from @Nathaniel K.:
Quote from @Douglas Gratz:
Quote from @Nathaniel K.:
Quote from @Douglas Gratz:

Section 8 I great but you have to be in a landlord-friendly county/city. You want to be able to evict fast and have a new section 8 tenant lines up

Thats my number 1 rule with section 8 , but overall I think its great, improves during recession ( recession proof), won't ever go away (govt) , and direct deposits...I find if you treat them good they will treat you well but you need to know when to put the foot down


Thanks for your input Douglas. I certainly want to be in landlord friendly counties for this reason. Need the law on my side lol. It does seem that enforcement needs to be at an all time high but that doesn't seem to big of an issue. Do you know if S-8 covers the full cost of the Fair Market Rents? I heard that they do not always cover the full amount on the HUD website. Is this true?


 It depends on the tenants incomes situation, some I get full and some they give me between 100-300


How about when it comes to utilities? I have heard that Utilities are included in the FMR, have heard that Section 8 provided an additional allowance on top of the FMR, and have even heard some landlord just pay the utilities.


 It differs county by county, but yeah they pat their utilities…If its a multfam one water meter could get difficult, i have in my lease 3 beds pay 66% and the one beds pays 33% , but that’s adjustable…

Post: Insights on Section 8 as a landlord/Investor

Douglas GratzPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 260
  • Votes 145
Quote from @Nathaniel K.:
Quote from @Douglas Gratz:

Section 8 I great but you have to be in a landlord-friendly county/city. You want to be able to evict fast and have a new section 8 tenant lines up

Thats my number 1 rule with section 8 , but overall I think its great, improves during recession ( recession proof), won't ever go away (govt) , and direct deposits...I find if you treat them good they will treat you well but you need to know when to put the foot down


Thanks for your input Douglas. I certainly want to be in landlord friendly counties for this reason. Need the law on my side lol. It does seem that enforcement needs to be at an all time high but that doesn't seem to big of an issue. Do you know if S-8 covers the full cost of the Fair Market Rents? I heard that they do not always cover the full amount on the HUD website. Is this true?


 It depends on the tenants incomes situation, some I get full and some they give me between 100-300

Post: Insights on Section 8 as a landlord/Investor

Douglas GratzPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 260
  • Votes 145

Section 8 I great but you have to be in a landlord-friendly county/city. You want to be able to evict fast and have a new section 8 tenant lines up

Thats my number 1 rule with section 8 , but overall I think its great, improves during recession ( recession proof), won't ever go away (govt) , and direct deposits...I find if you treat them good they will treat you well but you need to know when to put the foot down

Post: My New Construction Journal From Start To Finish

Douglas GratzPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 260
  • Votes 145
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Wait...what happened to your original deal where she was just gonna pay you to build a house for her? Wouldn't the profit on the project have been enough to make the loan payments? I must be missing something......

I wish you all the luck in the world, Douglas, but you sure do get yourself into some fixes, don't ya?


 Yeah, what I was saying when she was paying for all the changes, she may just be in the architect directly, paying for the kitchens directly etc I talked to a few builders I know supply houses sometimes front of lllstuff they can on credit and add a percent, and then I only need to raise so much less

Post: My New Construction Journal From Start To Finish

Douglas GratzPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 260
  • Votes 145
Quote from @Andrés Uribe:
Quote from @Douglas Gratz:

5/24/2023

6:19pm

So everyone, I am just about out of hope and motivation. And I swear I must be cursed because let me tell you a little about other things in my life before 2012 it was all self-inflicted, but every five years something outside of my control comes to crushed me and sent me back negative steps, so 2012 I stop being stupid I start my business, I do a bunch of flips and have eight units at that time 2017. I got stage be 3B melanoma…had three surgeries, but luckily I didn’t need chemo but I immuno therapy, which is not covered by insurance cost 80 grand around twice a year so I had to sell two of my rentals, which were great to have but after all, my bills wasn’t much anymore I couldn’t save and this is what led to this project 

Four years later I’m stagnant I got no money to grow and land. I’ve been waiting to get a call to buy because it was my ex girlfriends back in 2014 the first thing I ever said to her was if your parents literally when she got in the car, I said your parents on that lot. If they’re ever ready to sell you, let me know  her and I broke up soon after it was mutual just no chemistry, but I kiss *** for the past nine years . She has a little business. I helped her turn it into something great, and I just been helping her for the past 10 years to stay in her. Good Grace.

Finally 2021 comes around and I get a call and it’s for the land so I sell my house and buy it so now I’m renting rates are real low and the location is gold. I knew if I could get funding I making a profit there’s no doubt about it. Well, guess what happens right as we’re about to close on my first attempt at a loan rates skyrocket, and that loan disappeared , Call Him is not doing bad, but there is inflation. I finally got somebody to lend me at 18% then Bank started to fail and everyone got nervous so that loan fell apart so what I’m trying to get that is every five years it’s like attempted suicide 2011 what is this is my hell the devil lets me get inches away from success and rips it away who knows right

Point being everything I’ve ever had to accomplish in my life I have to work 20 times harder and frankly I’m tired

2 weeks ago my lender calls..Let me back up, they said all I need to get the loan to closing was have my partner who’s builds all over the country with this lender to sign on the loan for his experience, so I got him to agree… 

3 week before this call , they wanted a letter of explanation about my past criminal charges from over 15 years ago….

Back to the start….They set up a call and told me they were dropping the loan amount which came to about 200k per loan (2 homes to seperate loans.) closing cost went from 89k to 303k . I told them I have a 10a% contingency but they added one too which took money away from paying off the land to take first position and put it into the budget…

We were set to close in 2 weeks…they use the reason of experience bc my partner is in FL but he used these lenders and builds in Cali while in Florida…so it had to be my background .

Right now , my builder who I work for now, is calling all the wealthy people he’s been building for and still getting turned down. We have both homes pre sold , I am confused out of my mind. So there’s risk but way less than a spec home.

To top it off the current mortgage holder of the land, wont release one lot at a time (claiming the lot not built will lose value) which is a flat out lie, they were the first we went to fund it at a very high rate , one day they backed out, they want to me fail, I know the guy well, I used to be friends with his son.

It looks like I am going to go out the box and try buyer financing as a last resort. She wants the second lot as a yard and I havnt signed the AOS with the 2nd buyer. 

Back story, with the loan and partners my bet profit was 430k from both homes.

So I’m good with anything above 400k. I can offer a good deal on the land as incentive . I got it for 360, I give it to her for 400k it’s worth 500k…She finances the build I make over 400k goal more

Or real out the box and see if she just will buy the deal for 1.3M . I still build but it’s hers to do whatever…It would cost her 1,180,000 using 10% contingency …so she’s all in for $2,480,000. She bought the house from me for $2,250,000 , so she gets the land for 330k 40k less then I got it for but I walk away with a approx 700k. I owe 630 on the land…1,300,000 -630,000= 670k . The buyer is loaded , in the big picture it’s a great deal 

Unlikely when we do approach with buyer finance, we’re going to say the developer stands to lose a lot of profit if you build a house here so if he doesn’t build it, it’s giving up a big opportunity so he’s willing to do it if you finance the build of your house because I don’t wanna show that I don’t have the money to fund that you know she would jump ship right away 

all that said,  said I am scared, my hope is the dwindling   by the day, and it looks like the probability of being screwed is high and I screwed I mean unable to recover. I can’t get a job because I have a felony so I can’t save up and start over. Wow this is bad never been this word in my life but if both homes sold if I sign that AOS, I’m just gonna have to hustle and find a bunch of people or one person I get this invested wish me luck. It’s been real tough guys and mostly because number one rates skyrocketed ruined a lot of chances of getting a loan number to my experience banks would’ve let me the money if I had built before I can’t believe it though because I mean why is my builders experience who builds million dollar homes all day not matter I ****ing hate red tape but yeah it’s tough guys real tough


if there’s anyone interested in this it’s a ****ing low risk I reward both homes sold you don’t find that that’s a oxymoron. What investment vehicle can you put money in and 12 months receive about 26% on your body and I get that number from $2,990,000 which is the cost to build Bottas that’s about $1.2 million profit I need 400 grand so there’s 800 left that’s 26% you can’t make that in anything right now in 12 months yeah these buyers come back out some .8 months it but number one they lose $300,000 each , number two he gets $600,000 still build and it will sell because the cops these houses don’t stay on the market for more than 10 days the location is gold, so yeah if you’re interested message me cause I’m about to be living with my parents after all my hard work





 Keep your head up brother. I feel your pain, I am in the middle of a very similar process for nee construction (we were about to close this week, then builder calls and says he’s out because he is business partner left the company -his wife’s fault lol- wtf?!! I convinced him to think about it, he said he’ll take a couple weeks, so back to the drawing board to find new builder or wait a month to close). Everything seems to be going wrong, but a lot of things gone right and been done right, if there is a way out focus on that and pursue it. Think of the skier metaphor, a pro skier does not focus on the trees he’s zig zagging in between, he focuses on the space between the trees, otherwise he’d crash, his own fault, trees are always there. 
You are cautious, calculated risk taker, and from the feedback of some people here you are taking right steps, just things out of your control keep coming up. 
move learned from your story and this thread, it has helped me, so thank you for sharing. I hope and will pray that something good out of your control will happen for your project. 


 Oh thank you for your kind words. I’m glad it helped and will see the potential there so it’s not impossible.

Post: My New Construction Journal From Start To Finish

Douglas GratzPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 260
  • Votes 145
Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Wait...what happened to your original deal where she was just gonna pay you to build a house for her? Wouldn't the profit on the project have been enough to make the loan payments? I must be missing something......

I wish you all the luck in the world, Douglas, but you sure do get yourself into some fixes, don't ya?

Yeah, the buyer finance was a Last Resort. That’s where I’m headed toward but yes I do 

Post: My New Construction Journal From Start To Finish

Douglas GratzPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 260
  • Votes 145

5/24/2023

6:19pm

So everyone, I am just about out of hope and motivation. And I swear I must be cursed because let me tell you a little about other things in my life before 2012 it was all self-inflicted, but every five years something outside of my control comes to crushed me and sent me back negative steps, so 2012 I stop being stupid I start my business, I do a bunch of flips and have eight units at that time 2017. I got stage be 3B melanoma…had three surgeries, but luckily I didn’t need chemo but I immuno therapy, which is not covered by insurance cost 80 grand around twice a year so I had to sell two of my rentals, which were great to have but after all, my bills wasn’t much anymore I couldn’t save and this is what led to this project 

Four years later I’m stagnant I got no money to grow and land. I’ve been waiting to get a call to buy because it was my ex girlfriends back in 2014 the first thing I ever said to her was if your parents literally when she got in the car, I said your parents on that lot. If they’re ever ready to sell you, let me know  her and I broke up soon after it was mutual just no chemistry, but I kiss *** for the past nine years . She has a little business. I helped her turn it into something great, and I just been helping her for the past 10 years to stay in her. Good Grace.

Finally 2021 comes around and I get a call and it’s for the land so I sell my house and buy it so now I’m renting rates are real low and the location is gold. I knew if I could get funding I making a profit there’s no doubt about it. Well, guess what happens right as we’re about to close on my first attempt at a loan rates skyrocket, and that loan disappeared , Call Him is not doing bad, but there is inflation. I finally got somebody to lend me at 18% then Bank started to fail and everyone got nervous so that loan fell apart so what I’m trying to get that is every five years it’s like attempted suicide 2011 what is this is my hell the devil lets me get inches away from success and rips it away who knows right

Point being everything I’ve ever had to accomplish in my life I have to work 20 times harder and frankly I’m tired

2 weeks ago my lender calls..Let me back up, they said all I need to get the loan to closing was have my partner who’s builds all over the country with this lender to sign on the loan for his experience, so I got him to agree… 

3 week before this call , they wanted a letter of explanation about my past criminal charges from over 15 years ago….

Back to the start….They set up a call and told me they were dropping the loan amount which came to about 200k per loan (2 homes to seperate loans.) closing cost went from 89k to 303k . I told them I have a 10a% contingency but they added one too which took money away from paying off the land to take first position and put it into the budget…

We were set to close in 2 weeks…they use the reason of experience bc my partner is in FL but he used these lenders and builds in Cali while in Florida…so it had to be my background .

Right now , my builder who I work for now, is calling all the wealthy people he’s been building for and still getting turned down. We have both homes pre sold , I am confused out of my mind. So there’s risk but way less than a spec home.

To top it off the current mortgage holder of the land, wont release one lot at a time (claiming the lot not built will lose value) which is a flat out lie, they were the first we went to fund it at a very high rate , one day they backed out, they want to me fail, I know the guy well, I used to be friends with his son.

It looks like I am going to go out the box and try buyer financing as a last resort. She wants the second lot as a yard and I havnt signed the AOS with the 2nd buyer. 

Back story, with the loan and partners my bet profit was 430k from both homes.

So I’m good with anything above 400k. I can offer a good deal on the land as incentive . I got it for 360, I give it to her for 400k it’s worth 500k…She finances the build I make over 400k goal more

Or real out the box and see if she just will buy the deal for 1.3M . I still build but it’s hers to do whatever…It would cost her 1,180,000 using 10% contingency …so she’s all in for $2,480,000. She bought the house from me for $2,250,000 , so she gets the land for 330k 40k less then I got it for but I walk away with a approx 700k. I owe 630 on the land…1,300,000 -630,000= 670k . The buyer is loaded , in the big picture it’s a great deal 

Unlikely when we do approach with buyer finance, we’re going to say the developer stands to lose a lot of profit if you build a house here so if he doesn’t build it, it’s giving up a big opportunity so he’s willing to do it if you finance the build of your house because I don’t wanna show that I don’t have the money to fund that you know she would jump ship right away 

all that said,  said I am scared, my hope is the dwindling   by the day, and it looks like the probability of being screwed is high and I screwed I mean unable to recover. I can’t get a job because I have a felony so I can’t save up and start over. Wow this is bad never been this word in my life but if both homes sold if I sign that AOS, I’m just gonna have to hustle and find a bunch of people or one person I get this invested wish me luck. It’s been real tough guys and mostly because number one rates skyrocketed ruined a lot of chances of getting a loan number to my experience banks would’ve let me the money if I had built before I can’t believe it though because I mean why is my builders experience who builds million dollar homes all day not matter I ****ing hate red tape but yeah it’s tough guys real tough


if there’s anyone interested in this it’s a ****ing low risk I reward both homes sold you don’t find that that’s a oxymoron. What investment vehicle can you put money in and 12 months receive about 26% on your body and I get that number from $2,990,000 which is the cost to build Bottas that’s about $1.2 million profit I need 400 grand so there’s 800 left that’s 26% you can’t make that in anything right now in 12 months yeah these buyers come back out some .8 months it but number one they lose $300,000 each , number two he gets $600,000 still build and it will sell because the cops these houses don’t stay on the market for more than 10 days the location is gold, so yeah if you’re interested message me cause I’m about to be living with my parents after all my hard work




Post: My New Construction Journal From Start To Finish

Douglas GratzPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 260
  • Votes 145
Quote from @Rich Hupper:

Quick question about the price per sqft is that for the hard costs of construction plus builder fees?

Yeah his weekly pay is baked in

Post: My New Construction Journal From Start To Finish

Douglas GratzPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Philadelphia, PA
  • Posts 260
  • Votes 145

@Mike Smith 

@Bruce Woodruff

The most important thing is getting it finished within the timeline of 1 year 3 months, that might be the only out she has that could happen, other than that, she wants this house. We have met many times and her being young, I have gauged her the best I could and she is really excited to live here. She has put so much time into it and with the excitement, she shows (being young) I don't think she wants to live anywhere else after getting to customize her entire home. We just need to honor our end and we should be golden....Like I said, anything is possible, going from excited to angry bc of some error as you said Mike, so I will make sure to do my best to see that these errors don't occur (triple checking her picked-out finishes, making sure "this is the product you picked a right serial number and all" All I can do is just that and keep her happy and has the developer, that's my job give her,her dream home as she ordered it and give her no reason to go from excited to mad or worried. So I stay on top of everthing, the builder, the subs, the orders, the timeline for each step, get this thing closed up so the weather wont hold us up, make sure all the orders are spot on, all line items are ordered on time and in the right amounts, double and triple checking everything over and over.....