All Forum Posts by: Don McAlpine

 Thanks John.  We discussed this, but weren't sure if that would be acceptable to the title company.  Have you done this?

Does anyone here have experience clearing a title after a tax sale in upstate New York and subsequently selling the property to a retail buyer?  The property is located north of Albany, NY.

I purchased a property at a tax sale, received a quitclaim deed from the county, and have been marketing it to investors.  I received an offer that is substantially higher than my asking price from a retail buyer, but the buyer would have a mortgage and need a warranty deed.

My attorney reviewed the title search and the county's notifications to lienholders and doesn't see any issues. I asked my attorney about a quiet title action, but he is concerned that the title couldn't be cleared because the previous owner has two full years from the date the county foreclosed to challenge the sale, and it's not possible to quiet the title until the two years have elapsed because they legally have that amount of time, ie. you can't bar their claim while time remains.  The title company says it would need a satisfactory quiet title action and a couple of other factors that would be part of the QTA.

I certainly can't be the first person to attempt to clear a title in New York and would love to get input from someone who has done so.

Thanks in advance...

HOA liens will not survive a tax sale. Be sure you're participating in the county tax-defaulted property auction.

 Hey Vamsi,

Yes, that is the package that I purchased.  With that you'll get two video training courses, the weekly coaching calls, the daily facilitator calls, and the "Magic Map".  All of these are useful, but how useful will depend on your existing real estate experience when you sign up.

Is it useful?  

The training materials: Yes from the standpoint of learning what tax deeds and liens are and how/why they are sold.  My issue with the training courses is that the content is very dated (some clips go back as far as 2008) and superficial in depth.  I went into this with a real estate license, so my understanding of how property is bought and sold was strong, but there is little in the training about this.  Many of the people I met in the Auction Preparation Workshop (more on this later) were struggling with understanding things like title insurance, the varying types of deeds, etc.

The weekly coaching calls are very good and the facilitator calls are good as you get started to learn about how to do research.  You can ask questions in advance and the coaches or facilitators will address them directly.

The "Magic Map" is useful.  It provides links to each county office's sites for when you're doing research.  However, I've found that www.netronline.com provides the same and is more easily accessed.

Ted Thomas does everthing possible to keep students from interacting, so there is no Facebook or WhatsApp group established through the organization, but there may be groups established outside of the TT organization.  I haven't found any personally.  

Overall, it's a good way to get started, but depending on your experience and knowlege level in the buying and selling of real estate you might need more than is offered through the courses.  The Auction Preparation Workshop (somewhere around $250 for three days at a hotel in FL and offered after you purchase the training) was pitched as an intense learning experience.  Day one was good with plenty of useful content.  Day two was mostly a pitch-fest for the various TT one-on-one coaching programs (they ranged from $75k down to $15k and I can't speak to the value as I didn't sign up and don't know any others who did.  They sold out of their offerings during my workshop).  Day three was a presentation from a lawyer selling his tax reduction program.  There were other items on the agenda that were disregarded, which I found maddening.

You should also check out www.taxsaleacademy.com if you're looking for training to get started.  The program is less expensive, more in-depth on basic real estate concepts, and doesn't pitch you anything over and above what you already spent, though there is more training available if you want it.  They have plenty of videos on YouTube you can check out.  I have no affiliation with the TaxSaleAcademy other than having accessed their training.

So overall there is value.  How much will depend on where you're beginning your journey.

Hey David - 

1.  If there is a redemption you will receive your overbid back, plus the interest.  If it isn't, you have rights to take possession of the property and the overbid will be available to any liens that were released prior to the sale and/or the previous owner.

2. The bids will always move toward the current market value of the property.  That being said, there are often bidders who bid properties up to levels that will not allow for a profitable investment.  Set your max bid in advance and stick to it.

3.  Damages will be the responsibility of the winning bidder if you choose to take possession of the property.  You do not have a right to possession during the redemption period and whether or not you can insure your interest is a question for an insurance professional.

4. How long it takes to clear a title has more to do with the history of transfer of the property than whether it's a tax lien or tax deed state. If the property has had a mortgage on it with the current owner (and the owner is living) then clearing the title shouldn't be problematic since the lender would have required title insurance for the loan. If there are multiple inter-family, quit claim transfers or cash sales in the property history you should expect a more lengthy timeframe.

Whether or not you *need* to quiet the title has to do with what you intend to do with the property if you take possession.  If you don't plan to hold it, it may be advantageous to sell if for cash to another investor who can quiet or clear the title during rehab.  If you plan to keep it then the cost of clearing the title should be factored into your bid.

These are my observations.  Before bidding you should have full knowledge of every state and local statute related to tax sales, because if you miss something there's no one to blame but yourself. Research, research, research...

Hey Scott,

I took the TT intro course, bought the training, and attended one of their three-day workshops.

Prior to enrolling, I searched for lien/deed training courses and TT has an excellent SEO manager, so I ended up going that route.  There are classes daily that touch on different topics, and a weekly call with one of their coaches for Q&A. The coaches are good, but tend to have better knowledge in specific markets (TT does have a coach that specializes in SC). Overall it's OK.

I am a Realtor, so I went into the training with a solid understanding of how properties are bought and sold.  My take on TT is that they give you just enough info in everything they do to remain interested and get hyped up, and then they push hard to sell their coaching.  At the three-day workshop, day one was filled with success stories and the coaches describing strategies they implemented in buying and selling tax defaulted properties.  Day two was a hard sale on their coaching programs that started at $50k and went down to something like $15k (no, I didn't sign up).  Day three was a presentation from an attorney hawking a tax-reduction home training course and half of the printed agenda for the day was ignored.  I don't personally know anyone who signed up for the training from either TT or the attorney, so I can't speak to that.

My suggestion would be that if you don't have any real estate specific education, take the real estate pre-licensing classes in your state.  They're relatively inexpensive and will give you the background in real estate concepts that will speed up your ability to intake knowledge specific to tax liens and deeds.  I would then sign up with the Tax Lien Academy (no, I'm not paid to promote them), as I have found their training to be more specific and better laid out, and the owner Casey Denman makes himself available to members for questions.

Hey David,

I've been yet to find one, but once you get familiar with the larger auction sites you'll be able to compile a list of upcoming auctions quickly.

Here's a few to look into:   www.realauction.com; www.grantstreet.com ; www.govease.com;www.lienhub.co....

Govease has a list of their upcoming auctions on the home page.