All Forum Posts by: David Moore

@Charles Kennedy

First, congrats on your decision to self manage.  Your analysis of the costs is very well done.  You left out other fees.  Like turnover fees, and the repairs the PM will come up with that will be a super soaker of your hard earned cash.  Then the change out locks fee, and the cleaning fee.  Now, to defend them, a lot of that work is necessary, but the amount they charge is not.  

I manage 4 properties 1.5 hours away.  I take drives down there 4 times a year, and I love the drive, so it's no big deal.  I do partner with Realtors to help me fill vacancies.  I have a full list of contractors who do all my work, a handyman in town, and we do much of our own work (and we enjoy it).  My handyman is actually my emergency contact, so all bases are covered.  

You can do this.  Have no fear.  It's work, but at least you keep your money.

@Nathan Gesner

Still waiting for the value add example.   

@Nathan Gesner

Not complaining.  Sharing the poor guy's pain.  But to your example.  Here is the best example of Nickel and diming.  You sign the contract, know the stipulations, and you have a tenant moving out.  The PM Company, newly hired, wants to go in and do repairs, so they wait for the tenant to move out, instead of seeking the tenant first, which is what landlord's do.  Then, they ask you for a list of repairs to authorize.  They do extra, though, because that is what they do. But their contract doesn't have a cost estimate of repairs.  Then they pick contractors that are super expensive, and leave a mess.  Then, instead of the contractor, who are their lower paid but high charging guys, picking up after themselves as part of the contract, they leave a mess, that, you guessed it, a  cleanup person comes after to throw out the crap they left behind...and after that,  they hire a cleaning service to clean up after both these guys.

I got hit for $1600.00 bucks to remove a carpet, and paint a bathroom.  Both times I had a PM company, I lost money the months I had them.  The proof is not in their contract....the proof is in their conduct.  I want to spare all people who read this the expense....don't buy the dream.  Manage it yourself.  

In this example, the company wanted to do repairs, because that is where their bread is buttered.  I not only lost the $1600.00 for a job I could have done for $350.00, I lost a months rent.    Submit your proof as my previous challenge stated.  Don't defend them....prove to us that you can manage a property as if you are the owner.  Show us the value add.  We haven't seen it.  And both companies came with references...great reviews.  

@Tiffany U.

I have four properties more than 100 miles from my house.  I still self manage them.  Not too tough.

@Nathan Gesner

Meet @Kenny Dahill.  He'll put you through the grinder, to see if you qualify for the nations one, value add property manager.  

@Nathan Gesner

I hope you are not using your answer as advertising for property management.  Again, I have not yet seen one PM that ads value.  When I acquire a property, or when my lawyer created a lease, you can bet I read through those.  Landlord's are not the simpletons your post seems to suggest.  Landlord's are busy maintaining and improving their acquisition skills, their tenant skills, their leasing skills.  The lesson never really ends.   We landlord's know, for instance, to sign non-exclusive contracts with realtors...we know they exist, even though some realtors don't know they exist.  

I guess we want to believe a PM could be like that contractor who nails his number every time, or that banker who is looking for a win/win.  But PM companies aren't like the rest, in my experience.  There is no excellence.

@Kenny Dahill

If there is even one great property manager out there, let's at least set the terms.  A great property manager not only saves you time, but ads value.  Most just take your money.   A PM that ads value...I'd be interested to find even one.  

@Christopher Cadenhead

I cannot believe these terms.  My goodness, they have you over a barrell.  If they place tenants, they continue to collect fees for that placement until the end of their lease, even after you cancel.  And you can only cancel one each year, and that 30 days prior the auto renewal date, and only when they have received the written notice.

This is a great lesson to be considered when you are tempted to use a Property Management company.  Do they seem to have your interests in mind, or theirs?

@Kenny Dahill

Why?  Because most are not worth your time.  They sell you that they have contracts with different trades, and their handymen work for less.  Then they start spending your money, take their commissions, their monthly fee, and then they send you money when it is convenient for them.  Nope, I'm 0 for 2 on PM companies.  Doing it myself, because PM companies are in business for themselves, not for you, IMO.

@Tim Swierczek

Perfect.  Just what I'm looking for.  And to all who answered, I knew I could count on you.  You are all very smart.  Thanks.