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All Forum Posts by: David Dey

David Dey has started 8 posts and replied 332 times.

Post: Advice negotiating the sale of my flip.

David DeyPosted
  • Investor
  • Lakeland, FL
  • Posts 344
  • Votes 603

Only you can determine whether you should take it or not.  If you have lost your passion for this deal, it's best to move on.  

However, if you and your realtor got your numbers right, then it's less about the price and more about standing out in the crowd.

The problem I've seen is that while you listed your property for 149,900, there were dozens of other houses identical to yours that went on the market at the same price.  

A month or two later the realtor comes to you and says, "we're not getting any traction, lets drop the price."

The problem is, dozens of other houses were given the same advice.

So how to stand out in a crowd?  

1) Stand out to the realtor:  Realtors sell houses!!  

If a realtor is shopping for his client and is looking at all the houses in the 150k range and sees your property with a 2% selling agent bonus *with full offer. Which one do you think he will be pushing to his buyer.

2) Stand out to the buyer:  So your buyer is looking at 2 identical houses, in 2 identical neighborhoods, with 2 identical floor plans, and 2 identical price tags.  However, your identical home comes with maid service for a year!!  *with full price offer

Which one do you think the buyer (and more importantly, the buyers wife) is going to lean toward?  

In both of these situations, offering the bonus may be cheaper than the negotiation of price tag, but the main thing is to stand out.

Hope this helps

Post: How would you buy this? Best creative purchase scenario wins!!

David DeyPosted
  • Investor
  • Lakeland, FL
  • Posts 344
  • Votes 603
Originally posted by @Brent Coombs:

Maybe you could come to an agreement with the Seller regarding having first option to buy sub-to, and suggest asking if the Seller would agree with asking someone like Linda Thomas (or other Erin Brockovich type) to poke a stick at the County arguing conflict-of-interest or patently unfair practices or some such?

http://flaglerlive.com/65101/code-enforcement-laws...

 I'd give you 5 votes myself if I could, for the link alone!!  I'd love to do that on a dozen or more cases!!

Post: How would you buy this? Best creative purchase scenario wins!!

David DeyPosted
  • Investor
  • Lakeland, FL
  • Posts 344
  • Votes 603
Originally posted by @Justin R.:

If the city doesn't have $18k discretionary to buy out the bank, I would guess they would be willing to settle the code enforcement for waaaayyyy less - it's found money for them.

Maybe you make it clear to the city that it's a legal headache to take the property and there just won't be a parking lot, negotiate the code compliance down to $25k or something, and invite the local TV crew out to show them what the city was able to help you do with the newly rehabbed property.

Lots of missing details ... Just thoughts.

FWIW, I've dealt with a couple code compatible situations and have never seen someone actually have to pay any fines. Fees for permits as a result of the code enforcement, yes.

 They have the money but just like any municipality, lots of red tape especially since it's not something not on their annual budget.

Get the media involved, great thought!!

Post: How would you buy this? Best creative purchase scenario wins!!

David DeyPosted
  • Investor
  • Lakeland, FL
  • Posts 344
  • Votes 603
Originally posted by @Ned Carey:

I seriously doubt the code enforcement lien is in second position. It is a municipal lien which in most areas puts it in front of the bank. 

You haven't said what the property is worth. What are current rents, what is a pro forma for a re-positioned building and what would the cost of renovations be.

I would offer a price that makes it a good deal now. I would then negotiate to pay a net to seller price so that I could then negotiate with the bank and the city. 

My guess is the city doesn't normally actually charge $200 a day (although it may be allowed by law) The law is very likely applied unevenly. Presuming that is true I would challenge the code violation bill on the fact that it was discrimination. Someone in the building or in title must be of some protected class. I would argue that the only reason you are charging $200 a day on this building when hundreds of buildings around the city are not charge that much is because of the discrimination.

I would also be lobbying city official and elected representatives, to sway them onto my side.

Along the way I would find the "Highest and best use' of the property, then figure the value of the property based on what it could be used for. The city cannot take it without compensating the owner. If the property is valuable enough and you can prove it, this may be leverage stop encourage the city to rethink their plan. My guess is they expect to get if for nothing via the trumped up bogus code fines. Once they realize they will have to come out of pocket for the real value they may reconsider.

 Actually, it all depends on how the particular municipality writes its bylaws.  In this particular city and unless otherwise specified in the city's bylaws (as confirmed by this city's attorney)  the lien is a lien and is subject to the order of recording.

As to the code enforcement, there are two types of code liens.  

Abatement liens and administrative liens.  Abatement liens are where the city actually resolves the problem out of pocket.  (Ex: mow the yard, secure the building, etc.)  These liens are non-negotiable as they have spent the money already.

Administrative liens are the scary ones because they can add up over time.  These range from 15-250 dollars a day as long as not in compliance on average, depending on severity of the violation.  (Ex: bare wood on house $15 per day, unsecured building $150 per day, refrigerator outside not on its back with doors off 200-250 per day because tipping danger with kids playing around could get stuck inside)

However with administrative liens, most can be negotiated for pennies less admin costs as long property has been brought into compliance.  

Now in regard to foreclosing on a "blighted property" based on the lien or noncompliance, this does not fall into the same category as eminent domain where they have to recompense the owner for the value of the property.  (See Detroit, New Orleans, Tampa, Jacksonville, where they are using the same concept to bulldoze blighted properties, they then lien them and have the right to foreclose on that lien.  Normally they don't, but they could)

To your statement, I would agree with you that code enforcement does not have near enough oversight over it.  There most definitely is discrimination, (not always racial or socioeconomic) just as simple personal dislikes at times, or yes an anterior motive like this one.  I know of a lawsuit right now in the city of Tampa regarding a well warrented lawsuit regarding discrimination.

The seller is elderly, which Florida does take very seriously, so there may be some protection for her based on her age.

I like your thinking.  

Post: How would you buy this? Best creative purchase scenario wins!!

David DeyPosted
  • Investor
  • Lakeland, FL
  • Posts 344
  • Votes 603
Originally posted by @David Dey:

@Terry Free has a post in another forum category that someone should come up with a real estate investing video game.  While I am no computer programmer, (I'm the guy who calls support and they ask if it's plugged in... And it isn't) I think a game that could get your creative juices flowing would be amazing.  Sooo...

Here's the game:  I'm going to give you a real life scenario from one of my deals and see how you would purchase it.  Best scenario as determined by votes wins the coveted Super-Duper Supreme Real Investor Grand Poobah award!! (I don't think BP has one of those yet but I think @Joshua Dorkin could get right on that!!  If you want I'll tell you at the end how I did buy it.  Very likely your scenario will be better, But just like the lottery the only chance at winning happens if you play.

Here we go:

Elderly lady has a 10 unit apt building listed in Central Florida for 350k in 04.  She and her Husband had owned it for years before he passed away and the property fell into disrepair.  There is a code enforcement fine on the property at $200 per day, currently at just over 300k.  The city wants to foreclose on their code lien and demolish the building in order to make a parking lot for their puclic gymnasium next door.  The only thing that is stopping them at the moment is that there is a small first mtg with Bank of America for 18k... Which just started a foreclosure process as it is about a year behind in payments.  

So what would you do?

P.S.  Because I want your best scenarios and as true to life as possible, if you have any questions before presenting your scenario, please feel free to ask.  I probably know the answer and if not, I will make it up.

... And GO!!!

 @Brian Gibbons I know you are the man when it comes to creative investing.  Can I get you to weigh in?

Post: How would you buy this? Best creative purchase scenario wins!!

David DeyPosted
  • Investor
  • Lakeland, FL
  • Posts 344
  • Votes 603
Originally posted by @Doug N.:

@David Dey I have no idea, but my atty would like to know what the prize is. He would also like you to be aware of your possibly definite and willful infringement on my own (heavily trademarked) BP award show, namely The First Annual Weekly Funny Funny BP Comments Award Show™. Thank in advance!  

I actually think this is a great idea, a competition like this - it really makes for more interesting posts than "Tenant is rigging the meter - what should I do?" I think you have a whole bushel of these for future posting, no?

My first guess would be to see if there are structural issues with the compliance complaint(s), and try to unwind most of it - somehow. 

Then I would... ok, I've got nothing. 

Your comments indicate a solution in either B or C...

you're either going to have to pay them off, figure out how to get them to make an exception or figure out how to get rid of them.

OK, I'm sticking with my original guess... negotiate via summons and complaint, or some kind of fancy paperwork footwork. 

Please do post more of these if you have them. I really like awards. Cheers!

 @Doug N. thank you for your thoughts.  I have checked with my Atty as well and he insured me that we are completely protected in our venture since our first weekly annual BP awards show is nothing like yours, as it is Hillarious Hillarious BP responses award show. TMI  

Of course any further correspondence regarding this matter should be directed to the law firm of 

"Dewey Cheatham & Howe."

As to the purchase, remember there is no right way or wrong way to do this deal.  I just want to spark some thought processes.  Remember, there are at least 10 ways to do any deal, and probably a lot more.

Give me your best shots guys!!  Remember the Super Duper Real Estate Investor Grand Poobah award is on the line here!!

And yes Doug, if this one works, I'll have a bunch more to get you thinking.

Post: How would you buy this? Best creative purchase scenario wins!!

David DeyPosted
  • Investor
  • Lakeland, FL
  • Posts 344
  • Votes 603
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

Big problem, the local government has the hammer. They can take the property and pay the bank off and build their parking lot. 

If the wife had mortgage insurance with BOA the mortgage could be paid off. Mortgagors forget about this most of the time. I'd want to look at her mortgage doc. 

I would review her mortgage docs to try to find mistakes in the docs, like a misquoted APR, a mistake in the legal description, an escrow over charge in payments, an illegal interest. File a notice to defend or file a suit against BOA. This will delay the foreclosure.

Determine the actual cap rate based on the existing rents. Negotiate directly with the owner of the property, showing her the cap rate and the value based in the CAP Rate and condition of the building

Get in the chain of title by making her an offer well below the market value and based on the cost of abating the code violations, the low offer  would be an hybrid, meaning paying her a percent of the net profit realized over the contract price. This offer would be a delayed settlement subject finding an assignee.

Next, talk to code enforcement and the Mayor or whom ever runs that municipality to let them know that this is a hardship case, ask them to take this situation under advisement  and to give this elderly owner an opportunity to abate the code violations and elimate the fines. Taking her property for their public use would be immoral. 

If successful so far, clean up the property, replace tenants who will pay more, increase the value and the CAP.

Put the property on the market or offer it at a reserve public auction.

Go to settlement, collect your assignment fee, give owner the offered price plus the hybrid percentage.

There are lots of missing information here, but based on what you state, this is my best solution.

Charles Parrish

 Charles some great thoughts here!!  I like what your thinking.  Here are a few pieces that I noticed you pointed out and I'll clarify.  As mentioned, if there are any other missing pieces or you need clarity let me know.  I'll fill in the blanks.

Clarification 1) yes the city could foreclose on the lien however, this is not a major municipality so they don't have the discretionary funding to pay off the note.  They would have to go through a lengthy process including votes and such to get the money to pay off the lien.  In fact, that mtg is the one thing that is stopping them from just moving forward with the process. P.S.  Word is, that they have reached out to the bank and asked them if they would donate their equity in the note to the city by satisfying it.

Clarification 2)  the owner is amenable to work however necessary.  The realtor is cooperative because she doesn't have a clue how to resolve this.

The listing price is set to cover the mtg, the lien, (though the lien keeps growing at $200 a day) the realtor fee and closing costs.  If there is anything left that's a just a bonus.

Clarification 3) the entire property is in disrepair and 100% vacant.  Though the repairs are not horrible, the estimate was around 150k to repair, though of course it could go up some.

Again, love your thoughts.

Post: How would you buy this? Best creative purchase scenario wins!!

David DeyPosted
  • Investor
  • Lakeland, FL
  • Posts 344
  • Votes 603
Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

I would probably satisfy BofA and slap a $400k first position mortgage on it from one of my LLCs or Mgt Corp.  If juicy enough, it may be worth a $50k dice roll at the compliance dept table.

 Good thought Steve.  Only problem is that BoA loan being first, and Code enforcement 300k and counting lien is second on the property And if you satisfy the first, the second becomes the first.  So your lien would be inferior to the code lien.  But keep thinking!!

Post: How would you buy this? Best creative purchase scenario wins!!

David DeyPosted
  • Investor
  • Lakeland, FL
  • Posts 344
  • Votes 603

Not really, first and most importantly, they will NOT negotiate with you until you've brought the property into compliance.  Not to mention that they want the property to turn into a parking lot.

Sooo, you're either going to have to pay them off, figure out how to get them to make an exception or figure out how to get rid of them.

Post: How would you buy this? Best creative purchase scenario wins!!

David DeyPosted
  • Investor
  • Lakeland, FL
  • Posts 344
  • Votes 603

@Terry Free has a post in another forum category that someone should come up with a real estate investing video game.  While I am no computer programmer, (I'm the guy who calls support and they ask if it's plugged in... And it isn't) I think a game that could get your creative juices flowing would be amazing.  Sooo...

Here's the game:  I'm going to give you a real life scenario from one of my deals and see how you would purchase it.  Best scenario as determined by votes wins the coveted Super-Duper Supreme Real Investor Grand Poobah award!! (I don't think BP has one of those yet but I think @Joshua Dorkin could get right on that!!  If you want I'll tell you at the end how I did buy it.  Very likely your scenario will be better, But just like the lottery the only chance at winning happens if you play.

Here we go:

Elderly lady has a 10 unit apt building listed in Central Florida for 350k in 04.  She and her Husband had owned it for years before he passed away and the property fell into disrepair.  There is a code enforcement fine on the property at $200 per day, currently at just over 300k.  The city wants to foreclose on their code lien and demolish the building in order to make a parking lot for their puclic gymnasium next door.  The only thing that is stopping them at the moment is that there is a small first mtg with Bank of America for 18k... Which just started a foreclosure process as it is about a year behind in payments.  

So what would you do?

P.S.  Because I want your best scenarios and as true to life as possible, if you have any questions before presenting your scenario, please feel free to ask.  I probably know the answer and if not, I will make it up.

... And GO!!!