All Forum Posts by: David Dey

 Thanks Brian

That is high praise coming from you.

 My mentor taught me years ago something that has made me a truckload of money over the years.  

"David," He said.  "You can market all over the world, but your real buyer is just a stones throw away."

I have found this to be the case over and over to this day. 

First the low tech.  A bandit sign out front of the house will bring you droves of buyers. 

The next option, which is slightly higher tech will have you finding them virtually.  

Every property appraiser has a database of every single property in that county, along with every sale that takes place and where they took place and what type of property was bought and sold.  The good news is since this is government based, it's public record and you have a right to have and use it.

Many appraiser's sites are online so you can do this virtually. Take the grid that your property is in and pull up all the sales that took place this past year. Now keep only the corporations and LLC's that bought, along with the obvious investors. These are the individuals that have multiple homes in the same grid. (Having your summer home 2 blocks away seems a little redundant) 😜

Also, if you see the same property sold more than once in the same year, chances are you either have a wholesaler or a fix and flipper.  Again a good buyer choice.  (Ex:  I bought a house the other day and immediately looked up the neighborhood, right across the street was a house that had just been sold for top dollar earlier this past month, and had been bought 6 months prior for 70k less.  This told me that I had a fix and flipper.  I looked him up, very easy to do, and he came over the same day and put my house under contract)

I have done this on numerous occasions and have been able to sell every one of my homes within my contract time frame or within days of my closing.  Based on which I chose to do.

Another way, to gather info is to look up all the deed transfers in your county for a one month period.  Again, you're going to look for corporations, and obvious investors, but If you have a lot of activity, chances are you will come across a few buyers that buy and sell on the same day or within days of buying.  These are wholesalers.  Once you locate a name, look their deeds up specifically and you will now have their buyers list.  (The list that counts that is. Yes we know wholesalers send their property out to hundreds of people, but usually end up selling to the same 15-20 buyers over and over again)

Hope this helps

 Luis 

I posted this a Lil while ago but don't know how to send the actual post, so I'm copying and pasting it here.

Let me first start by saying that to find the owner of the property, first you must go to your local property appraiser's site, then look up the address to find out who owns the place.  That's the first step.

Here is a link to every property appraiser and public records search in the country.  Just click on the map to your state, then click on your county, then go to the data online for which ever branch of public records you need.

http://publicrecords.netronline.com

Hope this helps,  so here is that other post.

Finding absentee owners and their phone numbers is actually pretty easy now days. In this age of Internet and public records and ease of access, It's very difficult to stay off the radar.

Everybody leaves a digital footprint somewhere.

Here are some basic tools I use to find people.

Free first:

Whitepages/anywho/zabasearch/

Google is the most underrated tool to finding a person. Starting with their name and hopefully city or at least state. You can find out pieces of the puzzle that make it easier to locate the person.

Ex: if they are a professional of some sort, i.e. Doctor, lawyer, now you have areas you can find them. If they are a part of a forum, it pops up.

I once pulled up a person that was a on a site for classic cars that posted a request for parts along with his phone number. (Bought the house and made a 20k flip profit)

Public records are amazing: if you locate the area where the seller lives, make sure you look them up in their counties property appraiser, and clerk of court/register of deeds.

Examples of places you can find them:

If they pulled a permit on a house the notice of commencement may include their phone number.

If they were in a lawsuit and represented themselves, most forms will include a phone number.

If they were a landlord and did an eviction, the 3 day notice or complaint will usually have their phone number.

There are quite a few areas the info will show up in public records.

Social media is the hands down best way to locate people.

I have found more people through Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn then I can tell you.

My favorite example is where I located the owner of an abandoned home on Facebook. I had tried every tool I had available to me prior including free and paid services. Including high end skip trace tools. I had found out she had a daughter but couldn't find her either. Then I tried Facebook. Her daughter popped right up showing that she worked at the local Applebee's as a bartender. And on her page her most recent post was a request by her to her fb friends requesting a ride to work. And in the response was.... Wait for it... Her mom apologized for not being able to pick her up as she was heading into work right then. (Thank you oversharers) a quick click over to moms fb page revealed that she worked as a waitress at the crackerbarrel next door.

One of our bird dogs actually went over there and talked to her, set up an appt and we ended up buying the house for $600.

Cheap next:

Ussearch is a cheap skip trace tool that costs about $49 for a 3 month unlimited use service. There is a lot of junk in to sift through but many times you get lucky. The best tool in there is their direct link to social media.

More costly but worth it:

We have access to a service called tracers that, for .50 per pull, gets us some of the most up to date info on anyone out there.

We also employ a couple of private eyes that are somewhat entrepreneurial that will not only locate the owner but set up the appt for between 500-1000 per closed transaction.

These are a few of the tools we use to locate our sellers... And our buyers.

Hope this helps!!

P.S. I mentioned if the owner is a professional of some sort.

If they are, check your states Secretary of State corporation look up, manytimes in their filings you will find their phone numbers.

P.S.S. If they own or run a website, that turns out to be an easy search. Whois.sc is like a whitepages for domain owners. Unless they specifically use and pay for a private service, you will have their email and phone number right there. (Try Zillow for example. I used the tool to speak to someone at the company to learn how to get info on expired listings off Zillow)

 Lee thank you for your kind words.  I've been on both sides of the fence, that's why I think I'm qualified to speak to both sides.  

I do love this platform that allows both sides to come together and voice both sides of the issue, which will allow everyone to put themselves into the other side's shoes.

Long live BP!!!  :)

 Yes, a Florida land trust does allow you quite a number of benefits that a traditional mtg will not.  

The cool thing about a FL land trust is that it can be real property, personal property, both, or neither at the designation of the owner.

This along with the fact we are dealing in the commercial side of lending, which in this case is closer to partnering than straight lending, allows for the buyer beware scenario to apply and contractual agreements to stand tall.  

Could it be fought?  In theory, sure.  Anything can be fought.  However, 2 things.  1) there is case law that supports this process.  2) because you are setting forth the terms before the default, the "borrower" is already expecting the repercussions and is more likely to accept them as stands.

 I'm not sure you understood what @Jay Hinrichs was saying.  He was using warehouse lines of credit to lend that money at a higher rate to HM borrowers.  This is a common practice for many "institutional" hard money lenders.  They use these lines of credit and thereby have to follow the ground rules that they had set up with their lender.

This system does have its positives and its negatives. The Negative you all ready know.  They have set guidelines that they need to follow in order to give you a loan.  This is going to be like a little more aggressive bank loan.

On the other hand, private hard money loans can be very volatile.  You are a hostage to how your lender feels about the deal, or if he's having a bad day, this could influence your receiving a loan.

Just somethings to think about. There is a place for all money. Private, HML, institutional HML, and straight institutional lending. Your success will be determined by knowing when to use what.

With all due respect, yours is a deal I would never do.  Nothing against you, as the fact that you have others doing it shows that you are paying them back dillegently. (Or running a great Ponzi scheme. JK Jk!!)😜

My concern is, God forbid, what happens to my money if something happens to you? In that case, your tax returns and bank statements make little difference.  (Because accounts can be drained very easily and assets can be well protected and hid)

In my book Collateral is king!!  

Even with lines of credit that my lenders give me, I have an automated system, through my attorney that puts the property into a land trust with him as trustee and the lender in co-beneficial interest with direct instructions to remove me should I default, or removing them once I've paid them off.  this removing a need to foreclose.  

I do agree with you that as a lender, you need to make arrangements and have "that conversation" with the borrower before default happens.  After is too late.

If you make arrangements in the beginning, it can solve all sorts of issues later.

 On the other side now, if you have to go after their personal assets, then you really lent wrong.

I pushed the borrowers side earlier, now I'm putting on my lenders hat. I was taught by one of my own lenders and it has served me well since.

When looking at the property, I always ask myself, "would I buy this place in its current condition or in its ARV (based on an ARV loan with strict guidelines that my money will not be released except as work is done according to a draw schedule that I personally approve) for my loan amount?"

If the answer is yes, then as long as the borrowers pass my sniff tests I will move forward with the deal.

However, if my answer is no, then I don't care how good the credit or tax returns look, it's a dangerous loan and I wouldn't do it.

In the end, I do still agree with @toyin's concept that this is asset based lending, and if I loaned right then I will be happy with the asset itself.

@Jay Hinrichs thank you for weighing in, having been a lender and still being a backer, I knew you would get to the heart of it.  Character and capacity!!  I love it!!

goes back to the credit because she is looking at that as her evaluation of character herself.  (The borrowers willingness to repay as she put it)

@John C S. and @David Dachtera both have good answers and are the ones that 99% of all investors think is the right answer, but unfortunately are missing what the lenders are looking for.

You see, most of the borrowers think that the lenders security is the property and the equity in the property.  Actually that is not the security it's the collateral.  

Their security is you!!!  As Jay put it, your character and capacity.  

Let me put it to you this way, if they like you, trust you, and believe in you, 90% of your job is done.  Now all you have to do is bring them a good deal.

On the other hand, if they don't like you, trust you or believe in you, you could show them the greatest deal in the world, at pennies on the dollar, and they will not invest.

This is why most borrowers miss the boat, they're so busy selling the property they forget to sell themselves, i.e. Work on the relationship.

I wrote in another post about how, while still living in a motel room, I met my first private lender.

I had read my Carlton Sheets course and had made my offers and even got a few excepted but could not get the funding at all.  

The desperation showed, and I was always pushing the deal.  

One day, I called a seller of 5 duplexes that I found in the classifieds.  (Yes this was over 18 years ago, we still looked at the newspaper classifieds)

Within 5 min we both knew that this deal was not for me, but we had struck up a good conversation and were both enjoying it so we kept talking.  

I listened as he regaled me with stories of deals he had done.  I asked questions and he had answers.  About an hour or more into the conversation I mentioned a deal that I had under contract, a duplex that was worth about 40k and I had under contract for 25k with me finding a 16k first and my seller carrying back the balance of 9k in a second.

I had already taken it to all of my regular HM guys and had gotten my regular "no's" and had no idea how I was going to fund this.

To my surprise, this gentleman now tells me, "oh I also run a private money business, is like to look at the deal."  "How's tomorrow?"

Long story short, Walter funded me on my first deal.  He actually walked me through the entire process and took me under his wing.  

He went on to fund my next deals over the year and by the end of that year, I owned over 35 units that I was renting out with over 5k per month in cashflow, enough to move out of the motel and into my own house.

Also, 18 plus years later, I still work with the guy.

The thing to think about, if I had actually known that Walter was a lender, I would've probably ruined the whole thing by jumping at the money, but because I didn't, I could stay calm and work on the relationship.

@Tom Krol is an extremely successful borrower , because he nailed it in his approach of showing how others have succeeded working with him.  He is working from the success aspect.

Ask yourself, if desperate cousin Vinny came to you with his latest "can't lose scheme," would you lend him your money?

On the other hand, I have a friend who is an online trader who litterally made over a million dollars in 9 months starting with a 30k and is now worth over 40 million.  The number one question he's asked, (included by me) "could you invest my money for me?"  

So if he showed up on my doorstep and said, " I'm putting together a fund to invest like I do my personal funds," "do you want in?"  

I would put every dime I could afford into this thing!!  In fact I'd probably start borrowing like cousin Vinny!!

Why? Number one, I know the guy and his character, so I know my money is safe with him. 

Number 2) I know his track record.. His capacity!!

Anyway, here's a practical way you can put this to use.

Start building yourself a "credibility kit."

Every time you successfully close a deal, get a letter of reference from everyone involved in the deal, The seller, the buyer, the lender, the realtor, the escrow agent, everybody!!  Keep doing this and put it into a binder and everytime you meet with a prospective lender, bring your credibility kit.  

I guarantee you will get results.  

Hope this helps

@Jay Hinrichs so peek at the questions above and weigh in.

As a lender, I've been holding my breath to take in your answer to my question.  

You are mister money bags in this scenario. ;)

So I have a deal and bring it to you, and you ask me the question, "what's my security?"

What are you looking for?