Skip to content
×
PRO
Pro Members Get Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
$0
TODAY
$69.00/month when billed monthly.
$32.50/month when billed annually.
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
Already a Pro Member? Sign in here
Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties. Try BiggerPockets PRO.
x
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: Courtney Buck

Courtney Buck has started 11 posts and replied 62 times.

I've been watching Baldwin County for some time now. I own 114 acres near Perdido, AL near the new mega site and I have been considering making it a timber property and planting longleaf pine. But I have certainly been contemplating the idea of developing a new subdivision. Affordable housing in Baldwin County is a concern. 

Post: Need help finding comps on vacant land. Fairhope, AL

Courtney BuckPosted
  • Investor
  • Alpharetta GA and Destin, FL
  • Posts 68
  • Votes 55

Hi Laura,

I bought raw land near Perdido and I used a certified land appraiser and they were fantastic, they provided a fantastic report afterwards! Here is their info:

M. Lyon Courtney

Courtney & Morris Appraisals, Inc.

Post: Growing interest & demand for merchantable timber and carbon credits..any experience?

Courtney BuckPosted
  • Investor
  • Alpharetta GA and Destin, FL
  • Posts 68
  • Votes 55

I just went through the appraisal process on 114 acres of timberland in Alabama I just purchased. The land has two values that are combined for one overall value: surface value and timber value if it were harvested at that time. I have timber on my land but it's only 8 years old and has no commercial value (yet). So my land was only appraised on the surface value. Whoever you hire to perform the appraisal...make sure they are certified by the state and have experience with land/timber...get a copy of the appraisal too. They might bring in a forester to assist for an extra fee but I found it was totally worth it. 

Like you, I'm very interested in carbon credits as well. I want this land to cashflow as soon as possible. Let me know if you have any other questions, I'm learning as well:)

Post: Orange Beach/Santa Rosa Beach

Courtney BuckPosted
  • Investor
  • Alpharetta GA and Destin, FL
  • Posts 68
  • Votes 55

Hi there,

I live on 30A in Santa Rosa Beach (Dune Allen - west end) and there are much better deals in regards to ROI in Panama City Beach. Port St Joe near Apalachicola is another community that is thriving. They can't build enough houses right now and the STR scene is growing and prices are stable.

30A properties have exploded in value in the last 18 months (great for people who already own but not for new acquisitions). 

Hope this helps!

Courtney Buck

Post: Creating annual cash flow from longleaf pines and the land

Courtney BuckPosted
  • Investor
  • Alpharetta GA and Destin, FL
  • Posts 68
  • Votes 55
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Reid Chauvin:

Very cool! Thank you both for sharing @Jay Hinrichs & @Courtney Buck


 nice to talk about positive deals on BP since many of the threads are all doom and gloom LOL

I jokingly say that land and timber are filled with more positive people, ha!

Post: Creating annual cash flow from longleaf pines and the land

Courtney BuckPosted
  • Investor
  • Alpharetta GA and Destin, FL
  • Posts 68
  • Votes 55
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Courtney Buck:
Quote from @Reid Chauvin:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

 This sounds really interesting, Jay. Do you mind expanding upon this a bit more? How much capital are we talking? 


 Hi there, sure thing, it was 183k for the purchase but it appraised for much higher. So there is instant equity. I originally bought 30k in oil stock when it crashed in late March 2020. That stock exploded and I recently sold it(tax-free) and then used most of that money to buy this land.....again, tax free:) Since it's a Roth account, I paid the taxes already. I can't access it for nearly 2 decades but I'll just keep flipping this money for now. I buy discounted assets and love it!


baring the obvious risk to timber (fire, wind, bugs) Timber grows in the north west it grows at a rate that with todays log prices will give the investor a 12 to 14% COC return just on the timber.. timber gets bigger you have more of it. Plus depends on the stand but if you care for it in certain ways it can increase value even more IE export grade or # 1 or #2 grade Timber is graded in about 4 or 5 grades with each being more valuable than the next.

the largest investors and owners of timber land in the Pacific Northwest are John Hancock insurance and the Harvard endowment fund.. Billions invested and that is why.  little to no ongoing expenses to maintain it and it returns 10% plus year in year out. Talk safe and passive.


 That's interesting you mentioned the insurance company. The largest owner of timberland in this county is an insurance company. Followed by sovereign wealth funds.

Post: Creating annual cash flow from longleaf pines and the land

Courtney BuckPosted
  • Investor
  • Alpharetta GA and Destin, FL
  • Posts 68
  • Votes 55
Quote from @Reid Chauvin:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

 This sounds really interesting, Jay. Do you mind expanding upon this a bit more? How much capital are we talking? 


 Hi there, sure thing, it was 183k for the purchase but it appraised for much higher. So there is instant equity. I originally bought 30k in oil stock when it crashed in late March 2020. That stock exploded and I recently sold it(tax-free) and then used most of that money to buy this land.....again, tax free:) Since it's a Roth account, I paid the taxes already. I can't access it for nearly 2 decades but I'll just keep flipping this money for now. I buy discounted assets and love it!

Post: Creating annual cash flow from longleaf pines and the land

Courtney BuckPosted
  • Investor
  • Alpharetta GA and Destin, FL
  • Posts 68
  • Votes 55
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Bill F.:

@Courtney Buck

In general timber is a long term investment with lumpy cash flows so you'll fight an uphill battle from the start to make it cash flow from day 1. 

 To make the hunting leases more valuable you could thrown an old camper on the property with an outhouse/ cassette toilet to attract more people maybe? 

@Jay Hinrichs would be the person I'd ask. 


BUT:  if these stands are bought purely for plup production then I think tree damage is not a big deal but you still have fire and the other thing I have seen there in the deep south is Blow down..  Katrina blew down 10 billion board feet of timber that then had to be hauled to the mill Pell mell lest it just rot and become worthless.  I was in Northern CA last weekend and saw a few mills log decks and they were stacked with fire damaged logs not sure how they go about salvaging those logs.. but they may  sell the ones with smoke damage as Artisanal lumber




lumber

 Hurricane Michael did the same thing in NW Florida. It was tragic!

Post: Creating annual cash flow from longleaf pines and the land

Courtney BuckPosted
  • Investor
  • Alpharetta GA and Destin, FL
  • Posts 68
  • Votes 55
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Bill F.:

@Courtney Buck

In general timber is a long term investment with lumpy cash flows so you'll fight an uphill battle from the start to make it cash flow from day 1. 

 To make the hunting leases more valuable you could thrown an old camper on the property with an outhouse/ cassette toilet to attract more people maybe? 

@Jay Hinrichs would be the person I'd ask. 


thanks for the mention Bill..  I am not all that familiar with Southeast timber.. I have to think the pine straw is a good idea.  problem with the public and your timber land is damage to trees which is very real  and of course fire.. So not sure I would encourage any kind of activity on the property other than maybe hunting for a few buddies 100 acres is not a lot of land for hunting but i guess in that area were they use tree stands that might be OK.. plant an apple tree :)  other wise forest management from the NW perspective is keeping people out and talking to a local forester on how best to manage the stand for commercial production IE pre commercial thinning ( if that is even a thing in Pine country it is in Fir country) limbing up the trees if your going to sell the first log for dimensional lumber.  And there are some tax advantages called depletion one might
explore.

I made a presentation at Google headquarters and did a module on Timber investing to all those sub 35 year old engineers and told them if U can start a Roth and put some buddies together and buy your timber in your Roth you could make some serious retirement money tax free.. But kind of went right over their tech noodles :)

That's what I did, I bought this in a Roth Self Directed IRA:) I want more land in Alabama and Georgia!

Post: Creating annual cash flow from longleaf pines and the land

Courtney BuckPosted
  • Investor
  • Alpharetta GA and Destin, FL
  • Posts 68
  • Votes 55
Quote from @Bill F.:

@Courtney Buck

In general timber is a long term investment with lumpy cash flows so you'll fight an uphill battle from the start to make it cash flow from day 1. 

 To make the hunting leases more valuable you could thrown an old camper on the property with an outhouse/ cassette toilet to attract more people maybe? 

@Jay Hinrichs would be the person I'd ask. 


 You're the third person to tell me to put an old camper on the property. I would have laughed at this a year ago then I started seeing people do this and make money!