All Forum Posts by: Chris Coughlan

Mike,

I started another topic here regarding the legality of bird dogging:

http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/48/topics/21214-help-me-understand-bird-dogging-?highlight=

A couple of questions.....

So basically the main difference between a bird dog and a wholesaler is that the bird dogger just finds the property for the investor and the wholesaler actually puts the property under agreement and then shops it to his investors?

Seems like I would definitely need a RE license to be a wholesaler.

As a wholesaler, I'm sure there would be some type of clause in the purchase agreement allowing the transfer to the investor. I've heard the term "assignment of contract" which sounds like a specific contract for this type of deal.

Thanks,

Chris

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Originally posted by Mike Sedwick:

Chris, Welcome to BiggerPockets! If you don't have money for traditional financing, you will have to pursue a strategy of creative financing, without banks. You need to work to build up your cash reserves, as you said.

Birdogging is when you are acting as the person who is out beating the bushes for deals. The best way is to network with real investors at your real estate investors club (see the link on this site for a listing of clubs in your area), and/or call for rent ads and signs and talk to the landlords, who may be buyers for more properties, and establish a buyers list. Ask your buyers what their parameters are. Now you will have an "order list" and can go out and seek properties that fit their parameters (area, price, type of house, whatever). If you are a bird dog you will have an agreement with the buyer that if you bring a deal sheet to them, which fits their criteria for buying, they will pay you a finders fee or bird dog fee if they buy it. Then you would be out of the picture and on to the next search.

If you were a wholesaler, you would do all of the above, but you would go ahead and write a purchase agreement up, make an offer and get your offer accepted in writing by the seller. Then you would contact the investors on your buyers list and pitch your deal and see if they are interested in buying it (you will add your assignment fee to the price you are asking from the investor- end buyer. This fee can vary alot, from $2K on up. If he accepts, he closes the deal with his financing and you get your fee (or some wholesalers get their fee up front).

If you do either of these strategies you would not need much if any money to do the deal, hence the appeal to new investors. However, you do have to have a marketing plan to obtain the motivated (key word) sellers. That wil cost money. But at least it is not a huge lump sum, just a few hundred per month can buy a fairly nice marketing plan. The smarter your plan and the more you market the more potential motivated sellers you will find. Read the posts under the "Marketing" forum for alot of good ideas. Some people use bandit signs, direct mail to absentee owners or free and clear owners, etc.(you buy a list from a source like www.melissadata.com) newspaper ads, preforeclosure lists, probate, door flyers, post-it notes, yellow letters, post cards, Craigslist, and others. Keep marketing and develop a "spiel" where you can qualify the sellers so you reduce wasted time looking at houses that you can't buy because they are not motivated enough. It's a numbers game at that point, if your marketing is working. Eventually you can make offers. If you get a good deal accepted, you can always find a buyer for it.

Subject to and lease option purchasing are two strategies where you may need some money down to make the deal but not always, again, depending how motivated the seller is. Look in the "Creative financing" forum and/or use the search function to read all about these strategies and the forms to use. With these methods, you are actually buying the properties, although you could wholesale them too if the deal is good enough. I like lease options because there are more people who seem to understand it and just need you to educate them through the process. They save sales commissions, they just have to wait for their money. You find a tenant buyer, get an option payment up front, make monthly cashflow (hopefully) and make the most of your money on the back end if they buy.

Keep your education process moving and learn alot from this site and a few select books that can be bought cheaply from ebay or amazon.com (used books option).

Good luck! Keep us informed of your progress! Mike

Great info, thanks for clearing things up for me Mike!

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Originally posted by Jason Hanson :

Read everything you can in the creative financing forums and buy Wendy Patton's book on subject-to and lease options.

You should never have to worry about money for a down payment because you should always put very little money down if any at all.

I'm looking for that book now.....

Thanks

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My interpretation of bird dogging is finding below market value properties and then presenting them to wholesalers who then flip/rehab the property. The bird dogger charges a flat-rate commission or a % of the sale price to the wholesaler as a "finders fee".

I just got off the phone with a friend who is a real estate broker in my town. She explained to me that taking any type of commission on a real estate transaction requires a license.

Is this true? Do you need a brokers license to be involved in this type of transaction? Does this vary state to state?

What kind of contracts/agreements are used by bird doggers to be able to transfer to the wholesaler at the closing?

Thanks

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I just made this post. This should give you an idea what I'm interested in.

http://biggerpockets.com/forums/12/topics/21207-best-area-to-get-started-in-?highlight=

Thanks

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With the current mortgage crisis and hearing all of the foreclosure opportunites on the radio I decided to look in to it a few months ago. After doing a bunch of research it appears that there is great potential in the short sale/preforeclusure market. I've kind of been turned off from foreclosure/auction/sherrif sales due to the long process and the inability to inspect the property etc.

Besides getting the "balls" to actually approach people in preforeclosure situations, the main thing holding me back is financing, I simply do not have the money for a downpayment.

My plan was to buy properties, hold on to and rent them until the market turns, and then eventually sell, but that may not be the best option at this point.

Reading this forum the last few days I've been hearing some new terms:

bird dogging - http://www.biggerpockets.com/articles/bird-dogging101rb.html
wholesaling - http://www.biggerpockets.com/articles/wholesaling-properties-lg.html

To be honest, I'm not 100% sure what the main difference is. It seems like bird dogging is just finding properties below value for a buyer to rehab and sell/flip, and wholesaling is just finding properties below value for the buyer to sell/flip. The key to both is that you are using the buyers money?

subject-to / lease-to > I've read this term a few times on this forum and it has been related to "little money required". I guess I'm looking for what this really means.

I need some direction on what people think is the best avenue for me to start with. Are there options for me to get started where I don't need a lot of money? How can I get in touch with investors/buyers if I did want to bird dog or wholesale?

I'm sure I'll have many more questions, but that's it for now.

Thanks

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I am neither in college or under 25. I was interested in real estate back then but my biggest problem was financing. My father's girlfriend was a local broker so I had great information on properties, but I never could do anything about it. I'm now a bit older and have a steady job, solid credit history, etc., but I'm still finding it tough to get started because I don't have the money for a down payment.

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i did the free trials with foreclosure dot com and realtytrac dot com
both had some good information on preforeclosures, sherrif sales, tax liens etc.

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hello,

i've been doing a lot of research the last few weeks and this forum came up in many of the search results on google so i decided to finally join. it looks like there is a lot of great info here and am excited to hopefully get some advice from the experienced members.

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All Forum Posts by: Chris Coughlan

Chris Coughlan has started 15 posts and replied 69 times.

Post: Best Area to Get Started In?

Post: Best Area to Get Started In?

Post: Under 25....in college?

Post: Help me understand bird dogging....

Post: new to the board

Post: Best Area to Get Started In?

Post: Under 25....in college?

Post: How do you find short sales?

Post: new to the board