All Forum Posts by: Catherine Ding

Hi all, does anyone have any good lawn care service referrals for the Edgewater area in Cleveland? My property management wants to charge $120 per month and that seems pretty steep. Thanks!

1 Vote

Quote from @Tristan Kelly:

Investment Info:

Small multi-family (2-4 units) buy & hold investment.

Purchase price: $90,000
Cash invested: $55,000

Triplex in SE Cleveland (D+ neighborhood)

Purchased for 90 and saw 105 for valuation. 25% down plus closing costs and unit repairs has led to about 50-60k going into the deal. First year was very rough with poor property management and tenants. Stabilized in late 2024 and will be seeing about 900 in monthly cash flow.

What made you interested in investing in this type of deal?

I wanted to start with a cheaper property I could reasonably afford and also learn from. Multifamily always made sense to me as initially I was very impatient and wanted to see a decent cashflow.

How did you find this deal and how did you negotiate it?

Found on Zillow during a competitive time in the market. Slightly increased the offer to quickly go under contract, but still had inspections and everything done before completing the deal.

How did you finance this deal?

Conventional loan, 25% down at ~7% interest rate

How did you add value to the deal?

Offered 3k in holding and moved quickly

What was the outcome?

Deal closed, higher valuation than purchase price. Enough immediate cashflow to balance out the mortgage, taxes and insurance.

Lessons learned? Challenges?

Try to see the property yourself if you can (was out of state initially). Take the effort to solicit contractor recommendations from multiple people. Begin a maintenance schedule ASAP. Think about lead certification for Cleveland if you are purchasing in the current market.

Did you work with any real estate professionals (agents, lenders, etc.) that you'd recommend to others?

Investor focused real estate agent was Journey Toole. Lender was Amko lending.

I just bought my first MF in Cleveland as OOS and also used Journey + AMKO lmao

0 Votes

Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Jack Dagnese:

Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Ryan Arth:

Obviously they are putting more pressure on out of state investors that invest within Cleveland proper, but spreading liability to the property manager is a new twist. The mayor has been hot on out of state investors and poor property managers since his campaign.

I was speaking with an agent last night who said that their brokerage told the property management division to get out of any contracts within the city limits. They don't want the company to be potentially liable if an owner doesn't follow through with the inspections and repairs.

After the GFC, we needed the capital investment or they would have had to tear down more houses than the thousands that they already have. Apparently now those investments are less interesting to city hall.

As always, some bad actors cause burdensome regulations for everyone else.

Per the Akron Cleveland Association of Realtors:

"For example, in Cleveland, a local agent in charge must be identified if the property is not owner-occupied. However, if the owner lives in Cuyahoga County or a contiguous county, the owner may be listed as the local agent in charge. If the owner does not meet that residency requirement, another human being must be identified as the local agent in charge. If a problem arises with the property, the City will attempt to contact the owner and hold them accountable. However, if that effort fails, the local agent is equally liable – criminally and civilly – for any fees, fines, etc. associated with the property."

Give it time, this is getting shredded in court as we speak. City's with radical liberals in power like to throw unenforceable laws on the books. County, State and Federal rights supersede the craziness that some random liberal city council & Obama impersonator try to pull.

Nothing you are saying here is incorrect. However, I cannot find any court cases where this is currently being challenged. Could you provide some further insight? Don’t forget, the same radical politicians that enacted this law also appoint city judges….

HoltonWise is currently involved in litigation on the topic. I will post case info when we win.

Curious if there's been any update on this?

3 Votes

Cleveland, Ohio

My PM company is offering to do it for a high fee of $100/month so I'm trying to find alternative options. Would really appreciate if anyone has any recommendations!

0 Votes

Cleveland, Ohio

Quote from @Daniele Evans:

Five years later it's just as bad. I tried this company and they lasted all of 9 months. Bungled eviction, insane maintenance related costs, much not needed. Turn quote was $15K. Switched companies and turn done for $3.5K. I honestly have no idea how this company has clients.

What company did you end up going with, if you don't mind me asking?

1 Vote

Columbus, Ohio

Quote from @Joshua Perelli:

Quote from @Michael Smythe:

Been dealing with all this in most cities of Metro Detroit since our PMC founded.

City of Detroit has required Lead Cert for over 10 years.

The lead certifications isn’t the issue, it’s the local agent in charge that the city is making take financial responsibility. I cannot find anyone who wants to take that on.

Have you had any luck finding someone yet? We are also looking at options for finding a "registered agent" for our Cleveland property

0 Votes

Cleveland, Ohio

Quote from @Becca F.:

Quote from @Catherine Ding:

While I agree appreciation is where most of the wealth is made in real estate, I would still never buy anything that would give me negative cash flow. And with market conditions right now, anything SFH in the appreciating markets you mentioned above (CA, Reno, Las Vegas etc) come nowhere near cash flowing unless you buy almost all cash. I'm also hesitant buying in CA due to the laws and politics here (heard too many horror stories). I think buying in the Midwest gives you a solid balance of appreciation and cash flow as long as you're not buying in bad neighborhoods (I only look at B areas and above)

I understand your hesitancy with CA. In my case I acquired my Bay Area properties before 2013 (don't want to say the exact year but it was a long time ago) so I'm cash flow positive with the apartment complex (co-owned with other investors). We have a Property Management Company and so far no issues, great tenants.

The SFH I'm currently renting out to family members and self managing so they're getting a deal. If I were to rent it out to strangers at market rate I would be cash flow positive - main level is renovated, downstairs I'm considering doing an ADU. I would most likely get a PM if renting to a stranger since I don't want to deal with a tenant in pro-tenant law city. My prospective tenants would be likely high income earners (not that it's foolproof) but I would hope wouldn't destroy my property or do shady things. I talked to a couple of people here that are trying to house hack to start in the Bay Area - it'll take a high downpayment or high monthly payments buying at $800,000 to $1.5+ million price points.

I agree with you on the Midwest if buying Class B or A although the cash flow part is virtually impossible with LTR if buying in 2024 with 7% interest rates, unless doing MTR, STR or some creative financing. I would never buy Class C again in any state.

I'm looking mostly in B areas right now, maybe B-. I have a lender who can lend at a discounted interest rate on certain properties that are considered low-moderate income, and it's by specific address. Sometimes a property would be in a decent B area but that specific property qualifies, while another one down the street won't. I'm closing on a duplex in Cleveland right now in a generally B area that qualifies (my particular street is right on the outskirts so slightly less desirable, but not a C/D area for sure). I penciled in really conservative numbers and even with that, it should cashflow quite nicely BUT that remains to be seen in practice!

1 Vote

San Francisco, California

1 Vote

San Francisco, California

Quote from @Blessing Uzoma Mbamalu:

Hello all, I am from NYC and currently closing on a duplex in Marion village. This is my first investment property and although I know Columbus is better for appreciation vs cashflow, I would like to atleast net positive as I hold onto the property. I am closing at 372k for a 2.5bd and 1ba per side. Mortgage running around 2900 for 15% down.

I am considering adding a bath for one side to do MTR not so much STR because I hear it is difficult to find a good pm (unless anyone has suggestions) and do some light cosmetic updates on one side for a LTR (median $1760/mo) for consistent/passive income.

I wanted to know if there are any contractors/handymen/women (looking for quotes this week), property managers (STR/MTR/LTR), electricians that you would reccomend for the beginning of this process. Thank you!

Also curious if anyone has experience doing a different strategy per side of a multifamily, any pros or cons to share? Thank you.

2bed/1bath in merion village for $1760/mo LTR?? Are you sure? That seems extremely high to me

2 Votes

Columbus, Ohio

Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Catherine Ding:

@Nicholas L. @Bob Stevens Thank you for taking the time to respond. My husband has family in Cleveland but they are not investors. We normally go once a year during Thanksgiving but I will probably not be able to make any trips in the near future as we are expecting our first baby soon. I also know of other investors who do invest OOS including Columbus/Cleveland with success and have asked them for referrals. I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask here as well. I specifically asked about 44102 because the property I'm under contract on is in this zip code -- not sitting here "looking at zip codes" online lol. I don't know why you both immediately assume the worst of my commitment to investing OOS by asking for some referrals online. I am aware more due diligence is needed being OOS and am prepared to do so, and I am also not chasing cashflow in bad areas.

After going through the comments here, I think you'll get a lot of value in reading The Ultimate Guide to Grading Cleveland Neighborhoods.

Thank you. I have seen this already and done my research on neighborhoods, it was very helpful. The property I am looking at is in edgewater

0 Votes

Cleveland, Ohio

All Forum Posts by: Catherine Ding

Catherine Ding has started 9 posts and replied 42 times.

Post: Lawn care referral for Cleveland (edgewater area)

Post: First MF purchase in Cleveland OH

Post: New Regulations in the City of Cleveland

Post: Local Agent in Charge

Post: REVIEW - RL Property Management

Post: Cleveland Rental Registrations - A Guide to the Nightmare

Post: Takeaways from a REI conference for my California friends (and beginning investors)

Post: Takeaways from a REI conference for my California friends (and beginning investors)

Post: Contractors, electricians, plumber,pms to reccomend for MTR/LTR duplex

Post: Looking for general contractor and property management referrals in Cleveland