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All Forum Posts by: Rob C.

Rob C. has started 17 posts and replied 153 times.

Post: 3D Printing Technology

Rob C.Posted
  • Investor
  • Oceanside, CA
  • Posts 170
  • Votes 28

 @Karen Margrave - I’m also interested in how this technology might be leveraged for the sake of affordable housing. Are you / your company printing homes to rent out as affordable housing? I would be glad to connect with you to see if there might be an opportunity for us to team up

Post: Entity structure on out-of-state rentals and no CA franchise tax?

Rob C.Posted
  • Investor
  • Oceanside, CA
  • Posts 170
  • Votes 28

@Eamonn McElroy - At the time I was exploring this potential scenario my thoughts were to use a best friend or family member out of state as trustee (or perhaps co-trustee). I tend to think that might be the more prudent way to do it versus assuming that role oneself. Does it all depend on whether the trustee resides in or out of California? Possibly, though I’m not convinced personally that’s the case necessarily. 

For what it's worth- I hired an attorney months back, and based on his input I ended up pursuing a different path altogether making this subject moot for my purposes, but we did discuss trusts. And he said that while it is commonly the case, it is not necessarily the case that a grantor cedes all management and control of the trust when they are not trustee; he said further that certain trusts can be written in a way that affords the beneficiaries sufficient control (and the grantor could become a beneficiary). Now, did I ask him to point me to the relevant statutory or case law to prove it? No, not for that particular topic. He was able to do such for more important topics to me though, and through working with him I would personally trust his word on this subject barring someone presenting the law showing otherwise. That said, I'm not a lawyer and can't confirm or deny, and would discourage others from accepting such secondhand info as truth and instead contact an attorney of their own that they trust for guidance. 

The reason I included the link to Scott Smith's article was because he is well known here on biggerpockets as an attorney specializing in asset protection. His article suggests that one can change the situs of the trust to another state. Granted, it's not all that clear how to do that based on the relevant link, and I attempted to @mention Scott in hopes that he might be able to provide some clarity on that (I see that failed because he is not a "colleague" of mine here on BP). Furthermore, he references a few different types of situs. I could see how the location of the trustee may influence the administrative situs, and therefore the judicial situs. However, would it not be the tax situs that is more relevant in this context? BTW, my questions aren’t meant as a challenge to you (and sorry if it came across that way in my previous post), but rather simply to understand. The concept of trust situs is not one I've been able to get my head around, and from what I gather isn't consistent from state to state, correct me if I'm wrong. 

As for the "two on-point court cases", I said previously that I would be glad to look through them. I will continue to follow up on them in that corresponding thread. And I will reserve any comments on the aspect of commercial domicile as it relates to this particular scenario involving a trust pending your reply to my latest post there. Thanks for your commentary thus far.

Post: Any CA Investors Investing out of state working with Anderson?

Rob C.Posted
  • Investor
  • Oceanside, CA
  • Posts 170
  • Votes 28

@Eamonn McElroy - I carved out some time to read through those Appeals today. I read Appeal of DPMG Juniper LLC, but I couldn't find the other two anywhere online. Are you able to forward any links you may have to those? I don't want to speak too soon, before I've looked at all you've presented.

For what it's worth, it doesn't appear I'm able to repost the aforementioned thread that was removed given its length as well as formatting issues that will be too tedious to correct. I'll be glad to summarize key points with the links to the cases and code that I'd captured there assuming they maintain the same level of relevance after I've looked through the other two appeals you mentioned.

Post: Any CA Investors Investing out of state working with Anderson?

Rob C.Posted
  • Investor
  • Oceanside, CA
  • Posts 170
  • Votes 28
Originally posted by @Eamonn McElroy:

I just don’t like seeing folks misled by oversimplifications from posters pretending to know the full story.

I don't think Chris is misleading anyone...  Are you provide any authority or case precedence for your position?  I did not see you provide anything in the other thread other than colorful argument and, in essence, "prove me wrong".  If the CA FTB contests your position, you'll need a lot more than that in court as the burden of proof is on you and your advisors, not the CA FTB.

A foreign LLC (as it relates to CA) that has a manager physically located in California is indeed doing business in CA as that is both the general definition and the definition adopted by the CA courts of "commercially domiciled in CA". See CA RTC Sec 23101(b)(1), Appeal of DPMG Juniper LLC (OTA Case 20035914), Appeal of Norton Simon, Inc. (1972 WL 2642), and Appeal of Vinnell Corp (1978 WL 3943).  Those are all authoritative sources.

Inserting a trust between the LLC and you as "manager" of the LLC does not change this. Who is the trustee of the trust? You are, most likely. Where are you located? California.

There are ways to avoid nexus with CA for an LLC owned by a CA resident, but it is most often not feasible as it generally requires ceding all control in a bona fide manner.

@Eamonn McElroy - Thanks for chiming in. I provided plenty of authoritative sources and case law in the prior thread you were involved in that got removed (presumably because OP appeared to be selling something). Perhaps you've forgotten or didn't have a chance to digest before it was removed. I downloaded a cached version of that thread shortly after its removal. Since there was a lot of valuable info in it I'll see if I can find a way to post it without the OP's comments (which presumably led to removal). If not, I'll provide a synopsis with the relevant links. I will also be glad to take a look through the cases you referenced here to see if they fully address the matter, although it seems offhand from the context you've provided they may be beside the point. Regardless, I appreciate you providing supporting evidence of your position, which so few have done on this topic, and I will follow up. 

I've also addressed / challenged your particular opinion (and assumptions) in regard to the trust aspect in the alternate thread on that trust topic since it's better suited for that focus of discussion

Post: Entity structure on out-of-state rentals and no CA franchise tax?

Rob C.Posted
  • Investor
  • Oceanside, CA
  • Posts 170
  • Votes 28

@Eamonn McElroy, You addressed this topic here in a related thread by saying:
“Inserting a trust between the LLC and you as "manager" of the LLC does not change this. Who is the trustee of the trust? You are, most likely. Where are you located? California”


For starters, this is making an assumption about the trustee that I did not intend in my original post. However, I'm not sure that even matters. What gives you the opinion that the location of the trust depends only on the location of the trustee? This seems to conflict with the published opinions of @Scott Smith

Post: Is for sale by owner easy? (California)

Rob C.Posted
  • Investor
  • Oceanside, CA
  • Posts 170
  • Votes 28
Originally posted by @Mark Jacob:

Hi all, this is Mark From SoldBot.com.  I want to address Jorge Zea's incorrect information regarding SoldBot's services.  SoldBot provides escrow services in CA only, which CA law allows real estate brokers to provide. We don't force anyone to use our escrow services. Forcing someone to use a settlement service is illegal in the U.S. per RESPA. If you use our free brokerage service, we ask that you use our escrow services in return for the full-service real estate brokerage experience. We also charge the same or lower fees than the average escrow company in CA. We are not taking a "cut" of an escrow fee as a referral to some other escrow service provider as Jorge claims. We are the escrow service and we do a magnificent job as our hundreds of testimonials state which are posted on our website. Instead of providing investors with the truth about our service, Jorge prefers to pump up a friend of his, HomeCoin, which provide the usual menu of many services (like ForSaleByOwner.com) that up sell a home seller for every small service like completing the purchase contract or having a full-service brokerage experience. Very "upfront" of you Jorge. As an investor, you should ask yourself, "Why should I pay for companies like Homecoin and then in addition to their fee pay for my escrow services when I can obtain all of Homecoin's services, plus a full-service broker managing my entire sale, plus completion of the purchase contract for free using SoldBot?"  So get your facts straight Jorge before you post something negative about another company which is not true.  

@Mark Jacob - In recent months I’ve attempted to reach out to your company through your website, via email, and the phone number that shows on your yelp page. No one ever got back to me. Not sure if your staff are overwhelmed, or you’re out of business or what. Are you able to shed any light?

Post: 0% commission, no fee realtors

Rob C.Posted
  • Investor
  • Oceanside, CA
  • Posts 170
  • Votes 28
Originally posted by @Ronald Allen Barney:

I think they're listed under the $0 general contractors, the interest-free unlimited unsecured mortgages, the $0 property managers, free cars, and free lobster.

I thought the same thing until I read some of the good reviews on here about soldbot, and then also learning about freealty (but they only operate in CA to my knowledge and make you use their escrow company, which seems to charge higher rates than normal IMO albeit less than a 1% commission if my calculations are correct) 

Post: Any CA Investors Investing out of state working with Anderson?

Rob C.Posted
  • Investor
  • Oceanside, CA
  • Posts 170
  • Votes 28
Originally posted by @Christopher Smith:
Originally posted by @Rob C.:

@Jane Ng - I encourage you to take a look at this thread to see if you still agree with @Christopher Smith. Christoper, I don’t understand why you continue to spread this unsubstantiated opinion after our previous chats on the topic. If you really know what you’re talking about then please answer the questions I’ve posed in the aforementioned thread with links to corresponding sources of authoritative information that support your position

Well lets see. First its not my opinion since its a quote taken directly from the FTB, the folks that will audit you, then assess your deficiency and further penalize you if deemed appropriate. Second, following directly from the First, your dispute is not with me, its with the FTB, so take your aforementioned "sources of authoritative information" to the FTB, make your case and when you clearly prevail lets us all know by pointing to the FTB's notice to the public that it has reversed its heretofore unmistakenly unambiguous position on the issue. 

Is that clear enough for you?  

No, because if you had actually read my posts in the alternate thread you would have seen that I referenced / linked the very FTB page with that quote you’ve used. And I provided follow-up that challenges your thinking. Also, my dispute is not with anyone. I’m merely asking questions that challenge the “common wisdom” on BP that you seem to be propagating. And interestingly no one has yet been able to answer those questions. And it doesn’t matter to me personally what the answers are- I pursued a different approach altogether which renders this all moot. I just don’t like seeing folks misled by oversimplifications from posters pretending to know the full story.

Post: LLC structure for california resident with Indiana properties

Rob C.Posted
  • Investor
  • Oceanside, CA
  • Posts 170
  • Votes 28
Originally posted by @Susan Wang:
Originally posted by @Brandon Hall:

Here's the thing - CA has a very liberal definition of what "doing business" means and if you are deemed to be doing business in CA, you will be subject to applicable franchise fees. 

So if you have an LLC in another state and no LLC in CA, but you live in CA and operate from your home in CA (or an office or coffee shop or wherever in CA), then you will need to create a foreign entity in CA and pay the $800 minimum franchise fee.

Does everyone do this? No. Should you seek legal counsel if you intend to avoid this? Yes. 

You could potentially avoid this by granting an ownership stake in your LLC to a non-resident of CA (think friends or family). This person would need to be the general partner. You would be a passive partner, basically the money guy. At that point, you're not actually doing business in CA because you're not calling the shots. You would just need to make sure you can actually structure deals and your facts to support that strategy as it can hurt if you're caught red handed.

What do you think about WY umbrella qualifying for business in CA and paying the $800 franchise tax for that, but none of the property holding LLCs (since they are pass-through)?  That is what one asset protection company had recommended, not sure if that is true tax-wise. 

@Susan Wang - why register the top-level WY LLC in CA? The consequence of that might be precisely what you're looking to avoid. I encourage reading through my comments in this thread, and the links therein to the definitions of “doing business in CA.”  

@Karthick Bhaskaran (and maybe @Brandon Hall) - I encourage you to take a look at the aforementioned thread as well to help you decide whether the $800 fee is as mandatory as “common wisdom” on these forums might lead you to believe

Post: 0% commission, no fee realtors

Rob C.Posted
  • Investor
  • Oceanside, CA
  • Posts 170
  • Votes 28

I read some good reviews about soldbot here on BP from years past. I was intrigued by their concept of 0% commission and no fees to sellers. Unfortunately after sending them messages in a variety of ways within recent months I never received any kind of reply. Not sure if they’re overwhelmed, out of business or what. Anyone know of any others out there with a similar business model offering 0% commission sales (ideally for Georgia real estate)? Part of me wonders if the concept is too good to be true, but I also wondered the same when I gave redfin a try years back at 1% commission and ended up happy with results.