All Forum Posts by: Paul Choate

Big picture- I love BP!

When you are starting out in real estate, you can get out on an island. None of your family or friends understand what you are doing. Everyone thinks you have lost your mind. You still have to go to work everyday. You don't have the time and resources to network and learn like you need to. So, one day in desperation, you Google something which leads you to BP. BAM! This is what I need! Not want, not like, NEED!

For me- this was after making the same mistakes for years and getting frustrated with everyone I was dealing with. Now, when I have a problem, frustration or feel like I hit a wall, I have a place with motivation, practical advice and real solutions. I am light years ahead of where I would have been. 

So, @Walt Payne  and @Karin Crompton  I can say unequivocally, I will not use these tactics with the intent you have laid out. I don't know if it is a good or a bad thing I did not see the same things you saw in the post. 

I still maintain that the same steps can be used in good faith to get the best deal possible.  Knowing that something usually comes up and making up something are two different things. There is case law which addresses all of these gray areas. If you use all of these techniques with the intent to cancel the contract, you will not last very long and it will get very expensive.

I agree, after hearing your opinions, that the blog sounds a lot slimier then when I first read it. I would still rather learn from you on my own then have that content blocked from me.

@Walt Payne I would prefer the marketplace sort it out. Your comments on this post have certainly highlighted the risks and potential problems with using this strategy. I have learned by reading your comments and having this discussion. It would not occur to me to use the tactics in the way you have indicated the blogger meant. Now, I am prepared if a buyer does it to me. However, I have never asked a seller for credit after signing the contract. I am better off all around for having this discussion to include the good and bad. I am not opposed to a disclaimer after every post. That is not an area of law I am comfortable with. I don't think it is needed personally. New people are going to learn more reading these comments. 

Your analogy doesn't quite work as written. If it was common in the cruise industry for passengers to hide or not disclose relevant info like they get roaring drunk every day and ruin the experience for other passengers and the captain contracted with the passenger to pull over after seeing how they act to renegotiate the contract and the passenger had the right to say no and start the cruise back up immediately under the same terms and the captain had the right to walk away while having to pay to send the passenger home or fight over that cost with the passenger if the passenger feels the captain is being unreasonable and risk losing all of their time and expenses up to that point- then the analogy works. 

Inspection clauses are negotiated. They can be cancelled or restricted. This is not the law's first go round with individual's who try to game the system. Bad actors are weeded out everyday.

I am going to try this one more time...

I see two separate issues-

1. Whether BP should be held accountable for the content of blogs/postings/podcasts

and

2. whether this blog contains illegal or immoral advice.

1. Obviously BP has the right to censor the content on it's site and does so. I dislike the concept of having every blog post and podcast (as previously suggested) vetted by a supposed panel of experts. I come here to learn what people are actually doing. If they are not in jail, I would like the opportunity to hear what is going on out there. The blogger/poster is solely responsible for the content and will be held accountable as such. Don't try to put this on BP's shoulders. Please don't dumb down the content to the lowest denominator.

2. Happy to have this discussion. I disagree with most of you. If I follow the blogger's advice, then I have entered a written contract, paid earnest money, hired two contractors, met with the seller in person, and used the actual condition of the property (known and unknown prior to the contract) to work out an AGREED price based on the most accurate information possible after giving the seller advice (right or wrong) on his duty to disclose. Could someone show me were you get an intent to not perform going in? I have a bit of a problem with so many people jumping to a legal conclusion that is difficult to prove when there are actual facts much less in a hypothetical. As to the disclosure, I can testify that people give each other bad legal advice all of the time. Not a good business practice (In my opinion and in my situation), but there are fact patterns where he may be right. Btw, I am not giving legal advice:). 

@Karin Crompton   I disagree. I should not have gone into the details of the actual advice given. The point I am trying to make is there is nothing illegal nor immoral about that blog post on its face. I have a problem with you and others trying to characterize it as such and have it "banned". You are welcome to read all of the negative connotations into it just as I can take all of the good I can see in it.

This blog makes me think about using the full benefits of the contract that I bargained for to protect myself and get a better deal. I don't have any intent of going as far as he does. I have never asked for a seller credit. I know now it is something I should look out for. Everyone should understand whatever you do will have consequences that you can not control. What is bad in one situation is not bad in every situation. I would like the opportunity to figure that out for myself. Just want to make sure I can keep doing that here on BP.

I like BP because I believe there is real value in the blogs and posts. For me, that value is real people doing real deals and telling me (for free I might add) what and how they are doing it. I appreciate there is an ethical discussion (another reason I like BP) but I personally would highly resent attempts to censor what others are doing unless it is clearly illegal/immoral. I can make up my own mind as to what is right. 

As for the post itself, I guess everyone posting negatively has had different experiences with sellers and disclosures than I have. In my experience, Sellers have had no problem concealing issues that they had to know about and disclosure forms are just about useless. Institutional lenders make it very clear that the property is as is. Often the utilities are not on or in the case of an occupied unit, the tenant is visibly upset about you rummaging through their things. As the buyer, it is all on me. What is the point of an inspection clause if you don't use it? 

As for #2, I personally would not use it. Not because I think the blogger is wrong/bad, but because I don't think the seller would care and it would cause hard feelings thereby negating the other suggestions. Then again, I am an attorney by profession so I am willing to allow that I tend to focus on what is legal and assume some level of competency from each party. (Plus I am willing to allow my moral compass may be skewed toward legality;)).

So, thanks Conor Flaherty for the post. While I may not use everything you posted, I learned something new. That is why I am here on BP.

To answer your question, I have 13 sfrs and manage 4 owned with a partner. Mine are C and C- properties so they require more maintenance and tenant hustling. I spend about 20 hours a week on them but am bringing on an assistant to take on much of that work. I work for myself and am trying to move into this full time. It feels like two full time jobs sometimes...

Basically, if you have nicer properties and follow @Adam Kent advice on tenant screening you can have less trouble than I have. I have traded my time for higher returns. I have learned the hard way the importance of tenant screening.

Welcome! I am another attorney in the same boat. Keep seeing lawyers at Court in their 70's and don't want to be in that boat.

This place is awesome for real people and concrete info. 

Good luck!

Also a lawyer but my loans are at 3%. I will never pay my loans off until I can't make 4% on my money on my own. That's just me. So far my returns are much much higher. 

If you are only talking 2 years and you can not tolerate debt, then by all means pay them off. I am a bankruptcy attorney and I love Dave Ramsey but I will be in my 50's before I start making enough money to live on following his program. Someone said in a blog post the other day that the only mistake you can never correct in real estate is not starting sooner. I firmly believe that and wish I had started out of high school.

It is a balance. You need to decide how you want to live your life. You already have a good idea what you can do based on your experience and connections. I can tell you from the other side that debt is scary and will keep you up at night. Yet for me, it has also made possible the things I could only dream about on my own. This is business debt, not personal debt. I think that distinction makes all the difference.

@Sara Cunningham Thanks for the encouragement! It is hard at times when things don't work out. I was already plotting how to get into real estate full time next year with the second park:)! That would have been a home run and launched me years ahead on my plan. However, I am happy that this opportunity crossed my path as I have learned so much from it.

We had a turnout of 7 people including myself. I thought that was great for the first time. There was a wide variety of experience in the group. Here is what we discussed:

Everyone felt comfortable with holding the meeting at lunch as that did not take way from work or families. We are going to meet on the last Tuesday of the month at noon. This will be a monthly thing. We do not have a set place and anyone is welcome to suggest something. I have no problem rotating it around Oklahoma City and no one seemed to have a strong opinion about it. 

Two things we talked about:

1. Creating a Facebook group-

Creston Gerth created a Facebook group called, "Oklahoma BP Meetup". I feel that there is an ethos at Bigger Pockets and that is what I want to maintain. I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST OTHER GROUPS!!!! but... I want to make money doing real estate deals- not be sold a program. If anyone is confused about what I mean by that, please message me and I will explain. This is not my group and I am not in charge of anything. Majority rules. 

2. Create and email list of all of the participants- 

I will send that out with an invite to the Facebook group as soon as I post this. If you join the Facebook group, you will probably have all of the contact info.

I will also create a new post for this month's meeting on the 28th.