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So how much did you lose on this MMC?

Well, paying 52 for a 65 value is about 80% so it is not the worst case especially if you have no rehab work to do whatsoever. With that being said, I dont think that small return is worth the risk of it being in the buyout zone cause there are just to many uncertainties. If enough people know that area will be bought out the values will drop and by the time it actually happens you wont get squat for it cause they will only offer fair market value at that time.

Originally posted by "Sammy":

Are you saying it is ok to cheat honest people of their money, and still be a winner? What are you trying to say? If you new of wrong doing why did you not say anything earlier? To me it seems you would see a crime and not say anything to keep your hands clean.

Not sure why this point continues to ellude people but the winners did not knowingly defraud anybody. You have no way of knowing whether the "contracts" they invested in actually made money or if it was just a payout from new investors. The winners in no way participated in any fraud and therefore are in no way liable. I just cannot fathom that people would sugest asking for money from people who made the smart choice.

Also, if you read all the posts from this thread which I doubt you have, there are numerous posts warning people very early on that they needed to be careful. Even people who were invested continue to question the validity of the returns they were recieving. If you look back over the threads you will see that the same people who chose to keep rolling over their returns(like MMC) are the same people who are now going after the net winners. So basically they did not at cautiously and got greedy. Now they want others to help bail them out because of their bad descisions. Im sorry but that just makes me sick. I gurantee if these people were on the other end we would not hear a peep out of them. Seriusly, investing is a risky business period, if you cant take a bloody nose every now and then you have no place investing. That doesnt mean yolu shouldt go after the people responsible for fraud but to propose going after people who came out of it winners because of some misplaced jealousy is just wrong. And make no mistake, by questioning the "winners" integrity and trying to make them feal guilty, you are going after them.

Originally posted by "MMC":

Bigman,

Fault is not the point. Integrity is.

You don't have to be on my side, or any side. It is how it is. A crime was committed and some benefitted from that crime. Crime is not business, so the "Business 101" lecture is lost here.

I am also not saying that the net winners committed a crime. I am saying now that the net winners know that a crime has been committed, then they should find it in their hearts to return ill-gotten gains. The gains were made from people who were defrauded.

Laws of the Universe are stronger than any other. If I had been a net winner, I too would have a hard time giving it back, but I would have.

Wow...I find it unbelievable you are questioning the integrity of others who you do not even know or try to guilt them into giving money back in order to help yourself and then try and paint a picture that you are on some moral high ground. This was a extremely speculative investment. I think anyone involved towards the end had it in the back of their minds that something was amiss but because the returns kept coming in they chose to ignore that just like you did. Where was your integrity then? Did you honestly feel your gains were not coming at the expense of others either legally or illegally? Focus your efforts and energy on the people who committed the fraud. The Enron debacle is a very good example. After things started going down hill, many investors knew something was amiss and decided to cut their losses. Still, some others, against their better judgment, staid in or even increased their positions cause they couldn't stomach the initial losses. One of my best friends was one such person and he wound up loosing a ton. Never in a million years would he have even dreamed of suggesting the people who acted wisely and got out early give back money. He realizes it was his mistake and his alone and made the choice to learn from it. Whether their is fraud or not, investing is all about risk. A educated investor would have realized the gains Pinnacle were promising likely came with a significant risk. Some win and some lose and that is the way of the universe. Your attempts to try and make the winners seem "unethical" make me sick as it is you who are tying to help yourself at the expense of others due to your own stupidity. I really think you need to re-examine your stance on this and really figure out who has the ethics problem.

For those of you that lost money in this scam, I am extremely impressed by the way most of your are handling this(like Bigman) and I can tell by your attitudes that you will be successful in the future and make this back in no time. I sympathize for you loss and wish you the best in the future.

Originally posted by "bigman":

Moneypoint, I am with you. I agree 100%. Net winners are just that, net winners. If I was one, I wouldn't give back a dime. It is sad but a true reality that for someone to win, some one has to loose.

I am one of those in the 100K club. I lost a lot of money but It is not the fault of the net winners. It was my own fault along with the insiders of this scam.

Bigman, I have allot of respect for you for making this post. I am a new member of this forum but have been following this issue for awhile as well as Pinnacle as they are just a few blocks away from where I live. It is just sad how blinded people become when greed sets in. People chose not to listen to their own good sense or the warnings of others. This company had scam written all over it from day one. I would say it was almost common knowledge here among real estate personnel that this was just a derivative of a pyramid scheme. Until seeing this board, I had no idea as to the number of people who had actually invested money.

I support those who continue to pursue the company to recoup their losses as there is obvious fraud in this case. I think it is sad that any one would eve suggest going after the net winners as they were in no way responsible for anyone else loosing their money. This is just an example of the same greed rearing it's head again and personally I don't feel people like this have a place in the real estate community.

No disrespect intended but I think URICNUS has just come up with a creative way to sell NRU. Pretended to be a newbie asking about in and within a couple days is already touting what a great product it is as well as quoting what would seam to be "company lines" to sell to others. Very creative.. suprised so many fall for this kind of thing.