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All Forum Posts by: Andrew B.

Andrew B. has started 12 posts and replied 48 times.

Post: New Investor Floundering Around

Andrew B.Posted
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 49
  • Votes 34

@Matt Thompson

That’s exactly what I’m experiencing. Is this just dumb money coming in and over-paying or are we missing the boat?

Post: New Investor Floundering Around

Andrew B.Posted
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 49
  • Votes 34

@Matt Thompson

Good to hear that I’m not the only one finding it difficult. Have you bought at the Sheriffs Sale in Cuyahoga County before?

Post: New Investor Floundering Around

Andrew B.Posted
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 49
  • Votes 34

@Jacob Repreza

Thanks! Are you BRRRRing properties or are you buying rent ready and holding long-term?

Post: New Investor Floundering Around

Andrew B.Posted
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 49
  • Votes 34

@Michael Swan

That’s a huge thing I’m running into, these old homes all need a ton of work to get them in good shape to be a long-term investment.

Almost finished with your podcast and I’ll send you a PM.

Post: New Investor Floundering Around

Andrew B.Posted
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 49
  • Votes 34
Originally posted by @Kyle Altenau:

@Andrew B. - Yes. The amount will vary depending on what county you're in. Most won't take actual cash but require certified checks. That's a little annoying because you need to get the checks before going to the auction. So I'd have a couple $1k, $5k, $20k checks etc because you don't know the exact amount you'll need. If they require $20k deposit and you only have a $25k check on you, they'll of course accept that. I'd just rather keep as much cash in my pocket as possible. 

And you are correct about the getting hard money then refinancing. I'd speak to hard money lenders in your area and title companies as well. Every state/county can be a little different with Sheriff sales so you will want an understanding of how that works. 

Makes sense.  I will definitely reach out to hard money lenders in advance to make sure that they do that type of thing and will run it past the title company I've worked with.

Post: New Investor Floundering Around

Andrew B.Posted
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 49
  • Votes 34

Link to video I mentioned.

Post: New Investor Floundering Around

Andrew B.Posted
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 49
  • Votes 34
Originally posted by @Jacob Repreza:

Hey Andrew! Not nearly as experienced as @Michael Swan (which btw I will be listening to that podcast as well because i'm really interested in how he got 230 units, thats just amazing). But me and my team have been investing in Ohio for a few years now and to me it seems like you might be analyzing too conservatively? Just as a point of reference we were in contract on 4 properties from the MLS in early April out of about 20 offers or so we sent out? Now I do believe that the Covid situation might have scared some sellers into accepting our lower offers but we do see deals out there.

Other couple things to point out, as rentals go we usually go for 2-4 units for the rentals and mostly just use the SFR for flips so that could also be another thing that's making our rent numbers more acceptable. As far as area we're in University heights, Shaker Heights, South Euclid, Cleveland Heights and are negotiating some properties in Maple Heights so besides maple heights I'd consider those areas the same B-ish grade you're looking for.

Lastly, wholesaling is not illegal in Ohio. I've been seeing that a few times on bigger pockets and I'm not sure where they are getting that from or if I'm missing something? We've wholesaled a few properties just in the last few months and know other people who are doing much larger volume than we are. I usually see that sentiment from agents who want to discourage wholesalers from starting but I haven't seen/heard any legislation passing in regards to that. Would love to know if I'm wrong tho, don't want to be breaking any laws. 

Anyway just my 2 cents! 

Good to hear that you have been finding success on the east side in those markets. I will take a look at those and see if I am seeing more deals that make sense from the MLS. I've been looking mostly in Lakewood, Parma, Parma Heights, and West Park.


I don't want to derail this thread with the wholesaling discussion but I've read other posts on the forums that talk about it and the clearest answer I've gotten is from this video.  I know plenty of people do wholesale in Ohio but since I am a CPA (I don't do taxes, don't ask lol), I try to stay away from any gray areas as that could affect my day job.

Post: New Investor Floundering Around

Andrew B.Posted
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 49
  • Votes 34
Originally posted by @Kyle Altenau:

Years ago I was doing acquisitions for an investment firm mainly in Philadelphia, PA. I'd say among the 30-40 flips I oversaw, I sourced probably about 50% from the MLS and 50% between wholesalers/other off market sources.

I've since been doing my own investments for the last few years and have found that with the resurgence of interest in real estate investing, there is far too much competition on the MLS. This could of course differ by local markets, but that's been my experience in Philadelphia and New Jersey.

It does seem like looking to hit BRRR numbers on properties where you'd be competing with retail buyers is unrealistic. That type of buyer would be willing to accept far less equity in their purchase.

I'm not familiar with Ohio, but have you looked into Sheriff sales? I'm working on completing a 4 unit deal that I got from a Sheriff auction. The price I purchased it for ended up being an incredible deal. The downside there is that you have to put the deposit down at the auction hard for 10-20% depending on county in NJ. Then you have 30 days to pay the balance. Hard money lenders here will finance these though so that is what I am in now. 

Your message prompted me to go back and re-read the rules for Sheriff's Sales in my county and I was wrong in my thinking that I had to pay the full amount upon sale.  Turns out its between $5-10k depending on the price of the value of the property.  I will look into this further to see if that is a viable option for me.  Sounds like you would pay the deposit in cash, finance acquisition and rehab with hard money and then cash-our refi after 6 months into a long-term note?

Post: New Investor Floundering Around

Andrew B.Posted
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 49
  • Votes 34

Podcast downloaded, I will reach out once I've listened to it!

Post: New Investor Floundering Around

Andrew B.Posted
  • Cleveland, OH
  • Posts 49
  • Votes 34

I am sure this is not a unique situation so I am curious to hear what others have to say about their experience and what they are doing. I live in the Cleveland market which is known to be a strong cash-flow market but has limited upside in terms of appreciation due to flat/declining population.

I spent April 2019-April 2020 learning as much as possible via BP Podcasts, books, articles, and analyzing deals. I was unable to start making offers during that time because we needed to first save more capital and second unload our primary residence (luxury condo that had the potential to turn into an albatross since other units were selling much lower than they were purchased for and we needed to sell that before moving forward in case we needed to bring cash to close). We purchased a duplex after selling the condo and are owner-occupying one unit and renting out the other.

Now that I have capital saved and have our primary home situation sorted out, I have been evaluating deals and submitting offers. In two months, I have run 20 full deal analyses (2-3/week) where I model the acquisition, estimate the rehab, analyze holding costs during the rehab, and model the cash-out refinance and proforma cash flows after rehab/refinance. In addition to that, I am filtering through 10-15 listings a week that I can immediately tell do not fit my criteria. I get the MLS digest emails first thing in the morning so that's literally the first thing I do every day.

Based on the above and since I am new to RE investing and only have a limited amount of capital at hand, my preferred strategy for investing to start out is to full/partial BRRRRs in my local market. I have enough saved to buy two SFHs for around $110k each that would cash flow $100-200/month, using 5% vacancy, 10% maintenance/repairs, 5% capex and 0% property management. So while I could do that, I want to BRRRR because if I buy two ready to rent properties, even with the cash flow generated by them, it will take me 18-24 months to save up enough to buy another one while maintaining sufficient reserves for all properties.

The issue that I am running into is one that I know is common. I can't get any offers accepted on the MLS at a price that makes sense based on how I am evaluating deals. I am looking at B class neighborhoods so I am competing with retail buyers and anything that is priced in the range to make a BRRRR deal work ends up with multiple offers in 1-2 days after listing. I have tried to compete but have lost out on all of those offers. I did get two offers accepted but once I walked the property with a contractor/home inspector, I had to walk away because the rehab was going to be too expensive to support the deal and the seller was not willing/able to negotiate the price down.

The next logical step to me is to find off market properties not on the MLS but since wholesaling is illegal in Ohio, I am hesitant to spend a bunch of money on marketing efforts since I can't wholesale any properties that I can't personally close on.

Right now, I am continuing to research my local markets to see if any of the various municipalities have properties that work but have thus far not had any luck.

My fear is that one, some or all of these things are true:

1. My deal analysis is too conservative.

2. My criteria for properties is unrealistic (B Class neighborhood where I can buy low, renovate, and appraise high enough to get 50% or more of my capital out in a cash-out refinance).

3. My local market doesn't support the strategy I am trying to execute.

4. I am being impatient and need to keep grinding away until I build momentum.

It seems like I have the following options going forward:

1. Continue to evaluate MLS deals in my local markets and hope that the market shifts in favor of buyers in the next year.

2. Change my investment criteria and/or deal analysis assumptions to make more properties work on paper.

3. Look for off market properties not on the MLS using direct marketing efforts.

4. Look outside my local market for a market where BRRRR deals are easier to find.

I feel like I am working extremely hard but have not made any progress. I know @Brandon Turner and @David Greene always talk about the bridge analogy and I don't want to start trying to build a bunch of different bridges but I also am afraid that I am trying to build a bridge to nowhere.

Do any seasoned investors have any advice to offer?