All Forum Posts by: Alissa Engel

I recently had an encounter with an ESA situation at one of my rental properties that prompted me to do some research. It was so bogus that I couldn’t look the other way. I am a mental health therapist in private practice.  Here’s what I learned, what I did, and the outcome.

Because I serve military and veterans mostly, I had several legitimate connections for service dogs that I reached out to.  These are legit organizations that provide a wonderful service. I also consulted my profession’s code of ethics. 

The first consideration when you are looking at an ESA “prescription” is the provider’s credentials. 

I am an LCPC.  Typically you will see some version of those letters (depending on the state) if someone is a licensed counselor.  LCSW is the other set of letters you will see if someone is a licensed social worker.  Both of these are Masters level clinical positions and can NEVER prescribe. Period.

You will also see PhD, which can mean several things.  I am a PhD in counseling which means that I am a doctor but I can not prescribe.  You may see PhD in a Psychologist.  Still can’t prescribe despite being a “doctor.” This is a grey area.  Some organizations argue that a Doctorate level clinician can prescribe an ESA.  I disagree, and I think it’s an ethical violation in the realm of “scope of practice” because of the wording of “prescribe” in the ESA rules. 

I tell my clients that they will need to get this “prescription” from their MD, PA, APRN, etc.   They are really the only clinicians that can prescribe.  Meaning they have a DEA number. 

The second thing to consider is the need for an on-going relationship.  Unfortunately, there are many online companies hiring clinicians to write these letters.  They only talk to the patient one time, give a diagnosis, write a letter, and make $300.  This is the equivalent of a MD giving someone a prescription that never expires, requires no follow-up, and has an infinite number of refills.  It’s insane and unethical.  It’s also pretty darn sketchy to diagnose something requiring an ESA in one session. 

So what did I do with my tenant?  I called the clinician who wrote her letter.  Tenant is in MT and the clinician was in NY, so I already knew what was most likely happening. She talked with her ONE time for 30 minutes.  Also, she is an LCSW (not a prescriber).  I pointed out the ethical flaws at play, and “gave her the opportunity to rectify.”  She immediately withdrew the letter.  She called me a few weeks later and thanked me.  She quit working for the company because of the unethical nature of the whole thing. 

Each license (LCPC, LCSW, psychologist) has their own code of ethics. They are National.  So, most of this should apply nationally.  Basically, an ESA letter should be from someone who can prescribe and who has an on-going relationship with your tenant. Hoping this is helpful. 

Hey All - I am also in GF and would be interested in another BP gathering if it happens! 

Hi Levi.  Are you local to Great Falls?  Depends on the neighborhood.  Where is it located?  And what year was it built?  What is your niche renter? GF has some serious foundation issues...some that are fixable and others you don't want to touch.  Personally, I don't touch anything older than 1960-70.  Unless you are a foundation contractor/engineer, it usually is not cost effective to do the repair.  Unless your family is giving you a really good deal?

@Alan Ayala

Chipping and peeling paint won’t pass any appraisal, so you can ask that the seller to fix that in negotiations.

VA loans will also call for the hand rail, so the seller most likely will have to do that for several loan types. But they say nothing about the quality. So, these can usually be done for $200. If you plan to rent to section 8, you will need a railing anyways...if this is the case you might as well negotiate something nicer be installed.

Rotting wood can mean many things. Most likely this will also be an appraisal issue. So this won’t pass for most buyers with any loan type. Again, just negotiate with the seller to repair this.

The paint and the rotting wood will probably also show up in your home inspection report. Just use them to negotiate- not deal breakers.

Due to the time of year, it might be hard to fix exterior issues. Talk to your realtor and lender about doing a hold-back for repairs.

@Alan Ayala

Well, you’ve done your math 😂. I’m not a math person, so my eyes glazed over a bit...ha ha. Two things stand out for me:

1. The year it was built. Check around with some contractors, realtors, home inspectors, etc. In my area, I wouldn’t touch a property that old. It’s guaranteed to have foundation/structural issues due to the type of cement they used at that time. Not to mention lath and plaster walls and knob and tube wiring and old plumbing. Some people specialize in this age, but it’s a niche that can destroy your rehab budget if you aren’t educated on what to look for.

2. Inherited tenants. Look at the leases and payment history. Meet them. If you think they will be trouble AT ALL; find out what the cost of an eviction is in you area and use that to negotiate. Problem tenants can be delt with....but it costs money. Use that to negotiate.

Good Luck!

@Michael Rutkowski

Flipping and getting stuck with long term properties are two different things. It DID crash hard during that time frame....I lived it. I bought May 2007 for $165K (that sounds like an amazing deal now) and by May 2009 that same property (condo) was selling for $90K. I also owned several properties in Great Falls during that time. They decreased MAYBE $10K.

Now let’s talk rents: I was renting that Bozeman condo for $1100 in 2007. I renovated it, and by 2009-2010 I was only renting it for $775. The Bozeman market was so saturated with rentals from new builds that didn’t sell when the market tanked or properties that people couldn’t sell and were forced to rent when they lost jobs. Rents stayed the same through the recession in Great Falls.

That Bozeman Condo took about 8 years to come back to break even. It took 10 years before it profited. We sold it 10 years later for a descent profit. But it wasn’t worth years of stress. Bozeman is a volatile market. It appreciates big but it also tanks big. Now, do I wish I’d bought 10 of those condos in 2010? Yes, I do. But I was reeling from what that market was doing. Flipping probably was a good idea at that time, but good luck getting cash flow there as a newbie now, so that means it’s a risky move for an out-of-state newbie.

Does Great Falls, Billings, Helena, Butte have the appreciation like Bozeman? No, but they are much more stable. I still wouldn’t touch Bozeman right now, but I’m not a risk taker.

@Jake Ernst...wow. In all honesty, you are a terrible client...lol. Think back on all the time that agent spent, and ask yourself if you'd enjoy going to work for free. Just because we WANT a certain COC return; doesn't mean it's realistic. We WANT a lot of things that we can't have...that's life. Yes, it's time to adjust your criteria. Also, I'd call that realtor back, acknowledge that you wasted his time, and send him a very nice dinner gift card. He's being diplomatic, but you did not end on good terms. Going forward, it's time to get comfortable making offers sight unseen. An investor who know what they are doing and knows their market doesn't have to see every property. And writing offers takes TIME, so if you aren't going to write a realistic one, move to an area where you can get the numbers you want. You're going to need to compromise some aspect of your criteria....but it seems like you already know that.

@Jacoby Atako

Ask yourself if you like to work for free. Most likely the answer is NO. So anytime you ask the realtor to run your numbers, see a house that you know you won’t buy, refuse to get pre-qualified, or write 25 delusional offers....you are asking them to go to work for free. Value your realtor’s time like you value your own.

@Jack McWatters

By Montana standards; Billings is a CITY. If you are looking for bluecollar; I suggest Great Falls. I’ve been investing here for 20 years. I’ve also owned in Bozeman and Helena...Great Falls is my favorite by far. I wouldn’t touch a property in Bozeman right now. In 07’ it crashed and burned HARD and took a decade to recover. It’s WAY to much risk unless you have a lot of money and experience. Let me know if you need help in Great Falls!

@Michael Rutkowski

Agree. And as someone who bought there in 07’....Bozeman tanks HARD!! Just another reason why buyers need lots of cash...reserves for the next downturn, which hopefully won’t be as severe.