Help me automate my wholesaling processes....

Wholesaling
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Help me automate my wholesaling processes....

Kenneth E.
Davenport , IA · Member since 2011 · 213 posts · 265 votes

Hey all.

I am thinking about diving back into wholesaling this year on a more aggressive scale. My intent is to send more letters/postcards as well as follow-up with all potential deals (something I was lazy about doing previously). I am reaching out to the group to get some thoughts on automating my processes. Currently, I have a customized mailing list, simple mailers (letters and post cards) inviting sellers to call me (I have full time job so all calls go to “Google Voice” number where they leave a message) or visit my website to enter their information (which I will review and will get back to them). I call them back and schedule a property visit with all potential deals (screened against the criteria of my mentor who has 20 years experience and who I partner with 50/50 on the sale). Then, I negotiate with the seller.

I am curious to know what processes you other wholesalers out there have for automating your businesses (for a relatively cheap price). I really only want to be involved in the creation of my lead lists and negotiating the price at the end. Basically, I only want to be involved in the beginning and end of the process. The main activities of my processes are broken down into the following:

Developing mailing list. I’ll do this myself since this is the heart of everything for me.

Automating the creation/sending of mailers. This is hugely time consuming for me to type or write the letters. What do you guys do? Hire interns? Pay spouses? Yellowletterscomplete.com? Any creative, cheap ideas on drip campaigns? Pros? Cons? Suggestions?

Screening callers. I have a full time job and can’t answer during the day. Do you guys use answering services? Virtual Assistants? Any suggestions on the best way to automate this? I am thinking of having my google voice message refer all callers to my site where they can enter their own information so I don’t have to spend as much time calling people back and playing phone tag. My thoughts are maybe forwarding my google voice number to an answering service and having them simply enter the persons information into my website while on the phone with them. This means all roads will lead to my website. My website automatically sends submissions via email to me and my partners for immediate review.

Scheduling appointments for property visit. Do you do this yourselves?

Lead tracking. I kept notes on leads but never really had a decent way of tracking them. Any thoughts? Suggestions? I checked MQ's free lead tracking website but I am not entirely comfortable entering my lead information into the website of another wholesaler. How do you guys track leads? Do you do it yourselves? Do you have assistants do it?

Lead follow up: How and when do you follow up with people who may be more motivated to sell in the future (ie following up with them in 3-4 months)? Any cheap ideas for tracking leads? Do you follow up with calls, emails, or letters?

Negotiating. Only me. I won’t have anyone else negotiate with sellers.

So, Im curious to see how others reduce the amount of time they spend IN their business….and make time to focus ON the business. I know all of this has been discussed in bits and pieces right here on BP, but im curious to see ‘whole systems’….if you guys are willing to share. Thanks!

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Bill Gulley
Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
9y

I'm reminded of the moles in my yard, they have been really bad in this area this past year. The moles are pretty blind and chase the grubs, if they detect a meal in another direction that's where they head. They aren't efficient creatures at all, if they were, they wound plow through in a straight line some distance then turn around and head back next to their last run, like mowing a yard. Then they could clear an entire area and have all that was there. I'm glad they don't because the entire yard would be destroyed! So, they are blind and inefficient, often destroying the yard in their path.

What I'm seeing is new operators attempting to create a business with the efficiency of the mole, moving blindly in different directions, then this thread topic is to find ways to automate that activity. 

As to technology, I go back to punch cards and readers, wiring boards, most here probably don't know what those are, but today I have an old desk job, 2 laptops, 2 notepads and my cell, hard to believe the progress. But, through all of the advances one thing still holds true, junk in, junk out.

I'm all for automating administrative tasks, client and customer lists, leads, document management, property files, accounting, inventory, expense estimates and bids, reference materials, market data, all well and good. 

I'll say it again, dealing in real property is different than personal property, I've not seen a wholesaler on BP that can make those distinctions of the differences. What that really means is, bottom line, they don't really understand the business. That flows through your entire system, how you operate, manage and your business direction.

Sad part is, many, especially the youthful here, truly believe they understand the business, what they may understand is the game of buy low, sell high and profit, that's widget thinking, not really real estate. 

Your attitude in business drives the path you take, your automation supports that path or function, errors in the attitude of business will carry through your process, activities and the automated support. 

So, besides actually learning the real business of real estate as well as general business aspects, you need to take steps to build the foundation of your business first before you try to identify systems.

Do you even have a true business mission, or is it simply "I need to pull a deal and get some money before the end of the month"?

To accomplish your mission you need a strategy, to implement strategies you need to understand the tactics of the business, if some niche or tactic doesn't support the mission, you're spinning your wheels, wasting time and resources. 

I can't tell you what the best automated resource might be for you to make phone calls or send out direct mail, but my question is, are you wasting time and resources on a function that may not be necessary. 

In other words, if you really don't understand the proper structure and operations of using options, how can you set up a system to manage them? You can't, at least not effectively, so why take the path of the mole?

There are many repetitive functions to be accomplished in real estate, but as much as most of you want a step by step process to success, there isn't one, you can't automate judgment, variables of valuations, personalities, needs of your clients or customers, if you think technology manages such aspects you're wrong. 

What is the real purpose of your "system automation" does it support ethical and legal practices to a business mission? Is it flexible, can you adapt to changes and details of a deal, to market conditions, to the necessary flow of work that must be required. If you don't know that flow or aren't aware of operational probabilities, the system won't work very well.

I'm sure there are some good administrative support systems out there, but they need to mesh with the needs of an organization or they can't organize that organization. Do you really understand what you need to do? A mole doesn't!  :)   

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  • Bill Gulley
    Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    13y

    I'd suggest you look at your market and devise your process based on the possible activities under those constraints. I see you just want to me involved in the easier stuff, but still important, I'd be looking at the entire process, not jsut the ends. Seems you expect it to be more like an assembly line of widgets, if only it were that simple. Good luck

    2Reply
  • Kyle Weimer
    Real Estate Investor · Aurora, CO · Member since 2009 · 155 posts · 60 votes
    13y

    Use a call service, i.e. Freedomvoice, Voiceconnect Inc. You can have a live operator answer or at the least leave a more personal message stating that you'd like to help them, yada yada.
    I use Odesk and Fiverr to do a lot of things I frankly just don't want to do. At some point you are going to have to be involved. It's fine to have people leave their info and reason to sell on your website, however this becomes very impersonal and off putting to some who you really need to call and build a "friendship" with before they open up. Just part of the biz.

    2Reply
  • Kenneth E.
    OP
    Davenport , IA · Member since 2011 · 213 posts · 265 votes
    13y

    Hmmmm. Maybe I gave the impression I want it to be on autopilot. I do not and will keep tabs on each leg of the business. I am merely asking how others (who don’t have the time to handle all aspects of their business) deal with the more time-draining components of the business. Essentially, my time is already limited and I want to increase mailers but cannot handle the larger volume I want to take on. Thus, automating and outsourcing will be key. I cannot imagine the full-time wholesalers on here spend all of their time on each component of their business. Certainly, outsourcing and automating help them out. This is why I asked for ideas/suggestions to see if there are any creative/unique ideas out there. Thanks, fellas.

    0Reply
  • Jerry PuckettPro Member
    Wholesaler · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Bill G.:
    Seems you expect it to be more like an assembly line of widgets, if only it were that simple. Good luck

    Yeah, I have to agree with Bill on that Kenneth E. The trouble is, that in addition to being a numbers game, it's a people business. Getting the really good deals depends mostly on a sellers motivation, but there is much to be said for the building of rapport, which begins from first contact.

    That being said, there are a few ways to automate the really tedious things. The business of creating and sending out the mail on a consistent schedule can be out sourced. It's not cheap, but compared with your time, very inexpensive.

    Sorting through the calls over whelms a lot of folks I know. No sooner do I get their phone ringing than they ask if I can help with the calls also. My solution has been to find people with the zeal for RE and pay them to learn. They use my script, and handle the calls the way I want them to, enter the data where I want, and follow up on a pre determined schedule. To the seller, they are my partner, and mention my name from the first conversation, so that should I ever meet with them to do the negotiation, they are not surprised.

    I have them make and receive all calls through my Google voice number so that all calls can be tracked down to the minute, which is how I pay them. (for example, $15/hour = .25 cents per minute. When they get to $100, I write them a check). (they also get a bonus when a deal closes). If you can find someone in your geographic location, you can also teach them how to walk the property, take pictures, estimate repairs, all that.

    There are so many people begging for mentors that want to learn these things, I think it's a shame not to put that to use.

    I use a spread sheet that I created on Google docs to track my leads. Not only is it efficient, but it's in the "cloud" so I can share it with my assistants and partners. I also give it to people whos mail I manage so I can access their lists for drip campaigns. If you don't care about remote access, you may want to look at Scott Costello's lead tracker over at strugglinginvestor.com (not affiliated in any way).

    3Reply
  • Mike LaCava
    Real Estate Investor · Buzzards Bay (Bourne), MA · Member since 2012 · 208 posts · 28 votes
    13y

    Hi Kenneth - Where is Allison, PA in relation to western PA Beaver and Lawrence county area? Do you have any wholesale deals in that area.

    0Reply
  • Jerry Kisasonak
    Residential Real Estate Agent · Mc Keesport, PA · Member since 2012 · 449 posts · 154 votes
    13y

    Kenneth E. Wow Ken... your post sounded like me talking! I can get the phone to ring (which is a great thing) but then I get swamped in taking the calls and start to question why I got the phone to ring so much in the first place!

    Obviously, we both need to learn to outsource. I've heard of VA's that you can bring on full time for around $500 a month. Yes, it's an added expense, but if you can do an one or two more deals a month at $5K each the math looks pretty darn good. I'd pay $500 a month to put an extra $9,500 a month into my bank account. Maybe others can chime in on this and give some good advice.

    1Reply
  • Wayne Woodson
    Investor · Nashville, TN · Member since 2009 · 483 posts · 228 votes
    13y

    @Kenneth E.

    I use personal assistants that I hired off of Odesk.com to do my marketing on craigslist, backpage, kajiji, etc. I pay $20 a week $2 /hr for 10 hours a week and they are awesome. I suppose you could also have them do the callbacks and get the information about the property.

    The showing of the properties is something that always sucks and so I use lock boxes. The cost is about $30 at Home Depo but boy do they save on gas, get it ; ) I used goggle voice but now just use Skype. I don't sellers or buyers calling my personal phone for any reason ever.

    As far as the negotiations with the prices that is something I still do to this day. I don't think there is a way to outsource that per say. You could get an apprentice or relative to do it but that’s my secret sauce to my business.

    2Reply
  • Michael Spencer
    Wholesaler · Orange County, CA · Member since 2012 · 53 posts · 9 votes
    13y

    @Kenneth E.

    One way you can save an extreme amount of time and about 50% of money on marketing is utilizing Variable Data Printing (VDP). Google it and see what VDP software or plug-in best suits your needs!

    I use VDP for my yellow letters with a custom hand-written font and it takes about 1 minute to create 1,000 letters and a couple of hours to print.

    3Reply
  • Justin McClelland
    Specialist · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 75 posts · 25 votes
    13y

    Hey there Kenneth,

    You remind me of myself about a year ago. However, I went forward with a plan to automate everything and had mixed results.

    My main source of leads were bandit signs, yellow pages, direct mail, realtors, craigslist.

    I was dealing with short sales and wholesale deals. For software platform I was using ShortSaleCommander and Fredomsoft. Both are great for lead tracking regardless of if you deal with short sales or not.

    I had flowcharts, scripts, detailed checklists for virtual assistants that I hired off of oDesk and Freelancer.

    I closed a handful of deals operating like this. However, I've since scraped my original setup and am starting completely over with just me. This is because, the payroll for 4 VA's was getting expensive. Turnover was high for all but one. And I was spending more time managing VA's versus my biz.

    One thing I'd suggets avoiding is trying to automate too much too fast. I started in REI while I had a fulltime job also and probably encountered a lot of the same hurdles you're facing now (can't take live calls, phone tag with leads once off work, hot leads turned cold, etc).

    Automate one component at a time. The most significant task to automate immediately is most likely going to be that of fielding calls. I would highly suggest not letting your calls go to Google Voicemail (unless those calls come from bandit signs, that is). You can hire a VA from the Philippines, many which have a great handle on the English language and some can even turn on an American accent. Or you may opt for PatLive which I only used for a short while as it's quite expensive. You may just find that if you have a live human being available to field calls and you're accessible, that you'll have a higher lead conversion.

    What I've found is...motivated sellers don't like to jump thru hoops to contact you so they can sell their house fast and at a discount AND wait hours for you to call back.

    And lastly, about direct mail. I've had good success with yellow letters. Much more of a response rate than the non-yellow letters that I've used which were all typewritten. I've not used postcards. The deal is with direct mail: you've got to be as outside the box as possible, while still being cost/time efficient. I've heard good things about YellowLettersComplete and other yellow letter services. If you want to save even more cash and DIY, then Google search "yellow letter marketing justin" and you'll see a blog post I wrote about 5 years ago about exactly how to do it yourself in a very automated and realistic appearing fashion.

    Ok...this response went long. But hope it helps.

    2Reply
  • Jerry PuckettPro Member
    Wholesaler · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Michael Spencer:
    One way you can save an extreme amount of time and about 50% of money on marketing is utilizing Variable Data Printing (VDP).

    Hi Kenneth E.,
    Just thought I'd throw this out there...the amount of money you save really comes down to how much your time is worth. While this definitely speeds up the process, it still takes multiple hours to print, many more to stuff and stamp, and then there is the learning curve.

    Doesn't seem to meet your goal of automating.

    0Reply
  • Jerry Kisasonak
    Residential Real Estate Agent · Mc Keesport, PA · Member since 2012 · 449 posts · 154 votes
    13y

    This automation process seems to be the make or break / sink or swim part of a real estate investor. It's that big step we have to take from the self-employment quadrant to the business quadrant. (Read Robert Kiyosaki's fantastic book CASHFLOW QUADRANTS if you haven't!)

    The older I get the shorter the days seem to become, and the more I begin to understand why you need to have systems working for you if you're ever going to climb out of mediocrity.

    I think Justin McClelland advice is solid: Automate one component at a time. It seems like either the RE investor never outsources or the RE investor outsources everything before he knows how each part of the system is supposed to be run. If he doesn't know how the system is supposed to be run he has no frame of reference to assert leadership and make corrections, and he can't be totally sure if it's really a system problem or a people problem. His overhead crushes him sooner or later, and he moves back into the self-employment quadrant, or possibly worse, the employee quadrant.

    1Reply
  • Barima Opong-Owusu
    Real Estate Professional · Novi, MI · Member since 2012 · 73 posts · 8 votes
    13y

    To those of you who do the direct mail marketing (yellow letters) at home. Do you use standard yellow pads and cut the paper out? or do you order lined yellow paper. I've been looking for somewhere I can order the lined yellow paper from so that it has a higher paper weight and wont jam in the printer. Any ideas?

    0Reply
  • Mike V.
    Cedarburg, WI · Member since 2012 · 3 posts · 4 votes
    13y

    Hi guys,

    Kenneth E. - I use AnswerFirst.com for my live operator service. They are much less expensive than PatLive, and although they have per-minute charges, they actually charge by the quarter-minute or so, and thus you don't get charged for a full minute just because the call went 3 seconds into another minute. Their base monthly fee is $20/month and there are NO MONTHLY CONTRACTS.

    2Reply
  • Mike V.
    Cedarburg, WI · Member since 2012 · 3 posts · 4 votes
    13y

    @Barima Opong-Owusu -- I have gotten 20# (20-pound) and 24# yellow paper tablets at Office Max and Office Depot. I would guess that Staples and other nationwide stores would have it. You are correct that I simply tear out the papers from the tablets and run them through my laser printer -- and yes, I have had paper jams with "regular" weight yellow paper (16# is common). That's why I went with the 20 - 24# versions even though they are significantly more expensive, but not intolerable. You get roughly 3 tablets of heavier stock for the price you'd normally get 8 of the weaker paper stock.

    I'm trying to remember the brand that I got because I tossed the tablet bindings after I tore out the last packets I purchased, but it's called something like "Docket Gold", or something like that. I think it's made by the "Tops" company. Hope this helps.

    1Reply
  • Barima Opong-Owusu
    Real Estate Professional · Novi, MI · Member since 2012 · 73 posts · 8 votes
    13y

    Mike V. Thanks that helps alot

    0Reply
  • Michael Spencer
    Wholesaler · Orange County, CA · Member since 2012 · 53 posts · 9 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Barima Opong-Owusu:
    To those of you who do the direct mail marketing (yellow letters) at home. Do you use standard yellow pads and cut the paper out? or do you order lined yellow paper. I've been looking for somewhere I can order the lined yellow paper from so that it has a higher paper weight and wont jam in the printer. Any ideas?

    Barima Opong-Owusu, Standard Canary Yellow paper. I print the lines on the paper to make it look like notepad paper.

    1Reply
  • Calvin Jones
    Carrollton, VA · Member since 2012 · 24 posts · 2 votes
    13y

    Can anyone tell me what is the very least expensive automation/dirt cheap system for someone who is stone broke like me.

    1Reply
  • Kenneth E.
    OP
    Davenport , IA · Member since 2011 · 213 posts · 265 votes
    13y

    Jerry PuckettThanks for the response. I never though about using people who want to learn the business to answer my phone. I also never thought about using google voice to track call times.

    Mike LaCava Allison Park is just north of Pittsburgh. Yes, we have deals here. I am not sure if I can post the company website that I partner with (which lists all of the properties for sale) so email me and I can tell you where we list our deals for sale.

    Wayne Woodson Thanks for the ideas

    Michael Spencer Thanks. Ill look at VDP.

    Justin McClelland thanks. Good point on outsourcing one at a time.

    Mike V. Thanks I had never heard of AnswerFirst.com. Ill check them out.

    0Reply
  • Allen Felker
    Wholesaler · Madison , WI · Member since 2016 · 79 posts · 64 votes
    10y

    Look at the old guys trying to discourage people in the comments my goodness, it's 2016, automation is part if the game now, go retire. 

    0Reply
  • Jonathan Ortega
    Specialist · United States · Member since 2016 · 38 posts · 6 votes
    9y

    I am attending this. It might help. 

    https://www.eventbrite.com/e/investors-automate-yo...

    0Reply
  • Steven Leigh
    Wholesaler · Dayton, OH · Member since 2016 · 252 posts · 227 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Allen Felker:

    Look at the old guys trying to discourage people in the comments my goodness, it's 2016, automation is part if the game now, go retire. 

     I wouldn't have put it so harshly, but I have to agree with the sentiment. I can't believe the negativity toward the automation of a business. Yes, it's a people business, that's why he's trying to automate so that he can spend less time stuffing envelopes and more time with PEOPLE!

    To the OP, you're on the right track. As soon as you can afford to automate the mailings you should do it. Using a service like yellowletters.com is great, and if you want something more personalized, they can even do that. Think of your time as worth about $500 an hour. Would you be paying someone $500 an hour to do what you're wasting time on? No.

    Others mentioned hiring a VA in the Philippines. I haven't pulled the trigger on that one yet, but I know others who have and it was a game changer. You have to screen and test people a lot, and you may go through a few before you find one that works. You need someone who is extremely detail-oriented. They will all say they are, but you can even test them in your screening process, like asking them when they apply for the job to include three quotes about X subject, with the quotes in italics but the name not in italics, etc. I know that sounds crazy, but what you will find is that you'll get a lot of people just blasting your ad with their resume. The really detail-oriented people will follow your instructions exactly.

    Then it's a matter of tracking EVERYTHING you do into EXACT steps. You need to break your entire business down into repeatable steps and documentation so that if I replaced someone in your business I could be up and running in an hour and follow the clear manuals to know how to handle every situation. What happens when voicemails come in? What happens after a call? How does the VA set appointments for you? How does she contact you about your appointments? What info goes into your database? etc.

    It's a process, but if you get all of these things running without you you can focus on the things you personally need to do. And eventually you can hire acquisition managers to do your part as well if you want. Then you have a BUSINESS and not just a JOB.

    2Reply
  • Grace Sunshine
    Investor · Mandeville, LA · Member since 2016 · 46 posts · 7 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Mike V.:

    Hi guys,

    Kenneth E. - I use AnswerFirst.com for my live operator service. They are much less expensive than PatLive, and although they have per-minute charges, they actually charge by the quarter-minute or so, and thus you don't get charged for a full minute just because the call went 3 seconds into another minute. Their base monthly fee is $20/month and there are NO MONTHLY CONTRACTS.

    As a new investor, I use patlive for the business and would like to try AnswerFirst.com. 

    Thank you for the information.

    0Reply
  • Grace Sunshine
    Investor · Mandeville, LA · Member since 2016 · 46 posts · 7 votes
    9y

    As a new investor and a full-time employee, here is what I am doing for automating the business. If you have any suggestion, please do not hesitate to let me know.

    1.For the lead tracking system, I use podio (free version). I created the database following Scott Costello's lead tracker’s strugglinginvestor.com. It is very helpful.

    2.I use patlive to answer the phone call. It is expensive and would like to try other systems.

    3.I ask patlive to input the data to my podio’s webform.

    4.I use zapier (free version) to connect leads and SMS. When patlive receive a phone call and input the data to podio, my partner, a real estate agent, will call the seller.

    5.My partner call the seller and do the negotiation.

    6.I hired a VA from upwork ($3.33/hour) to do the craiglist ad, cash buyer builder, agent list builder, ARV analysis, HUD house bid. I use icecream screen (free) and write script to train my VA.

    7.I used A3marketing (~$1.1 per hand addressing letter) for direct mail marketing. (The direct mail campaign is expensive. I have sent out 1000 letters and get no deal so far. Currently, I want to save money for marketing by using postcard.)

    As a new investor, I am still learning and hope this message will be helpful for someone just begin the investment like me.

    Any comments, please let me know.

    1Reply
  • Steven Leigh
    Wholesaler · Dayton, OH · Member since 2016 · 252 posts · 227 votes
    9y

    @Grace Sunshine Do I understand you correctly that with all of this automation you still haven't done a deal at all so far? Or you just haven't done one from your direct mail?

    I'm all for automation, but it seems like you've skipped learning the process yourself and gone straight into automation, which doesn't seem to be working well for you. Did you learn this through a coaching program or something? Who's was it?

    1Reply
  • Grace Sunshine
    Investor · Mandeville, LA · Member since 2016 · 46 posts · 7 votes
    9y

    Hello, @Steven Leigh.You are right, I have not done any deal yet for wholesale business yet. For the past one year, I bought and rehabbed 4 houses from MLS. I began the wholesale business from this Aug. So far, I sent about 1000 letters and had about 50 leads coming in. I have my partner, a real estate agent, call and negotiate with seller and had no deal yet. My partner is afraid to give an high offer. Now I am looking for option to buy contract for our business. Do you know where can I find it?

    As for the automation, I mainly  learned from podcast from Sean Terry, Flipping Junkies.

    1Reply
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