Has anyone successfully sued their loan servicer?

Has anyone successfully sued their loan servicer?

Noah P BondsPro Member
Boise, ID · Member since 2019 · 59 posts · 36 votes

One of my loans was taken over servicing by Shellpoint. Since then it's been a pita for the last 6-8 months. Essentially my taxes suddenly weren't being paid and they subsequently lowered my escrow payment. I initially found out because my county began sending me delinquent notices. After many attempts to explain this to Shellpoint they finally have readjusted the escrow payment to an even larger than initial amount.  I have been trying to explain this to them since January - it's taken them until June. I had sent them the delinquent notices from the county at least two times. My initial piti payment was 8,870 now it will be 10,359.To make matters more messy I changed insurance during this time - they repeatedly sent me notices that they did not have proof of insurance...I had my insurance rep send them the docs several times before they finally acknowledged the new insurance. I don't know if this is worth pursuing but I feel like they've really dropped the ball over and over. I'm guessing It's not worth it, but I would like to hear if anyone has ever sued a loan servicer and what they outcome was.

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Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
Moderator
Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
2y

@Noah P Bonds

Qualified written response

Question would be what are you suing for? You can only sue for actual damages. What damages did you have? Maybe some extra money owed on taxes? So you are gonna sue and spend thousands to collect maybe a few hundred in penalties?

You won’t get money but if you file complaints they would get fined

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  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2y

    @Noah P Bonds

    I would not sue them - I would request a qwr, an escrow analysis and put in the request the history / story and copy your states department responsible for licensed servicers

    If you give me the state I could give you their information. Along with copying them you could file a complaint with them as well.

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  • Noah P BondsPro Member
    OP
    Boise, ID · Member since 2019 · 59 posts · 36 votes
    2y

    This is for Boise, ID. I doubt it's worth pursuing, but I'm mostly wondering if anyone has ever won. What is a QWR?

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2y

    @Noah P Bonds

    Qualified written response

    Question would be what are you suing for? You can only sue for actual damages. What damages did you have? Maybe some extra money owed on taxes? So you are gonna sue and spend thousands to collect maybe a few hundred in penalties?

    You won’t get money but if you file complaints they would get fined

    7e investments53 Reviews
  • Nicholas L.Pro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y

    @Noah P Bonds

    I am sorry you're going through this, I went through something similar a couple years ago.  I tried to take my taxes out of escrow - I pay them myself on my primary, and ALL of my rentals - and it was a TOTAL NIGHTMARE.  I had to call them - not exaggerating - dozens of times, and then when they finally mailed me the check, it was the wrong amount.  

    So yes, my experience with loan servicers has been the same.  But no, you're not going to get anywhere 'suing' them.  You're just going to have to pester them until they get it right.  And you got great advice from @Chris Seveney.

    Good luck!

  • Noah P BondsPro Member
    OP
    Boise, ID · Member since 2019 · 59 posts · 36 votes
    2y

    Thanks guys. I think I'll just continue to pester them. I just want the payment to go back to where it was. I'll be out an additional 17K/yr until the escrow catches up. The other issue aside from the giant hassle is now that the payment is higher I'm less likely to cash flow and will be at slightly  higher risk of default. Rent's have dropped in this area and may continue to drop a bit more( lots of new inventory coming online this year). I feel like I have less of a buffer now and any little bit of capex could put me in the red. I do have reserves, but I have worked too hard improving this place to see the cashflow get ruined by this loan servicer.

  • Rental Property Investor · Myrtle Beach, SC · Member since 2018 · 41 posts · 54 votes
    2y

    I have the exact same issue with shellpoint on multiple loans. Complete nightmare. 

  • Noah P BondsPro Member
    OP
    Boise, ID · Member since 2019 · 59 posts · 36 votes
    2y

    Following up - I tried Shellpoint one last time today and we came up with a plan. I sent them a payment to my escrow account for the surplus they had accidentally sent me earlier in the year. This was money that should have gone to my property taxes. It's not enough to reduce my escrow payment back to normal, but it will help. Next we put in a request to stretch out the timeframe for catching up the escrow. They had it set to 12 months and I'm hoping it will be stretched to 24 months. I was told they only do increments of 12 months so I simply said extend it to the maximum allowable time. I have zero faith in this loan servicer however so I will continue to keep a close eye on the situation. If there is anymore to report I'll make another reply to this thread. Thanks again for your comments.

  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Noah P Bonds:

    Following up - I tried Shellpoint one last time today and we came up with a plan. I sent them a payment to my escrow account for the surplus they had accidentally sent me earlier in the year. This was money that should have gone to my property taxes. It's not enough to reduce my escrow payment back to normal, but it will help. Next we put in a request to stretch out the timeframe for catching up the escrow. They had it set to 12 months and I'm hoping it will be stretched to 24 months. I was told they only do increments of 12 months so I simply said extend it to the maximum allowable time. I have zero faith in this loan servicer however so I will continue to keep a close eye on the situation. If there is anymore to report I'll make another reply to this thread. Thanks again for your comments.


     If you have a track record and a decent amount of equity in the property most services will let you exclude TI from your payment. I pay my own taxes and insurance on my real estate loans. Generally all you have to do is ask.

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  • Noah P BondsPro Member
    OP
    Boise, ID · Member since 2019 · 59 posts · 36 votes
    2y

    This was actually one of the options they gave me. I was told that after 24 months they can allow it. I opted to keep paying TI out of escrow for now. It feels a little safer for me to do it that way. Maybe once the dust settles I'll take the plunge. What do you like about paying it yourself? Do you ever worry about getting behind on those?

  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Noah P Bonds:

    This was actually one of the options they gave me. I was told that after 24 months they can allow it. I opted to keep paying TI out of escrow for now. It feels a little safer for me to do it that way. Maybe once the dust settles I'll take the plunge. What do you like about paying it yourself? Do you ever worry about getting behind on those?


     It's way "safer" paying it yourself. Once about 20 years ago one of my mortgage services didn't pay my property taxes even though they were escrowed. They kept giving me nonsense about what the delay was but the crux of it was that I ended up having to pay it myself to keep from getting a tax lien put on my property and settle up later out of escrow. That was the end of letting the servicer pay on my behalf. Besides, paying on your own gives you options. For example, my tax bills are considered payable from October through February without penalty. I choose the calendar year I pay in based on where I am with deductions for the year; if I'm already maxed on deductions I hold the payment until January; that gives me potentially double deductions that year. 

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  • Noah P BondsPro Member
    OP
    Boise, ID · Member since 2019 · 59 posts · 36 votes
    2y

    I had not thought of the deductions - good point. I've got enough depreciation to keep me safe for now, but that sounds like a good option to have. Mostly I was thinking about the extra discipline I would need to set aside the money for TI.

  • Rental Property Investor · Malvern, PA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 936 votes
    2y

    I like paying my own TI as I know it is paid on time and I can collect interest on the escrow balance until it is paid out. That's 5.27% that I am getting right now as school taxes approach. I wouldn't be getting anything if the servicer held the balance.

  • Paradise, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 871 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Noah P Bonds:

    One of my loans was taken over servicing by Shellpoint. Since then it's been a pita for the last 6-8 months. Essentially my taxes suddenly weren't being paid and they subsequently lowered my escrow payment. I initially found out because my county began sending me delinquent notices. After many attempts to explain this to Shellpoint they finally have readjusted the escrow payment to an even larger than initial amount.  I have been trying to explain this to them since January - it's taken them until June. I had sent them the delinquent notices from the county at least two times. My initial piti payment was 8,870 now it will be 10,359.To make matters more messy I changed insurance during this time - they repeatedly sent me notices that they did not have proof of insurance...I had my insurance rep send them the docs several times before they finally acknowledged the new insurance. I don't know if this is worth pursuing but I feel like they've really dropped the ball over and over. I'm guessing It's not worth it, but I would like to hear if anyone has ever sued a loan servicer and what they outcome was.


    I'm a bank and I get sued all the time. I also manage the insurance and escrow department for my bank and while we make mistakes, we fix them and we make sure we pay for any penalties if its our fault. I've had to pay for some insurance premiums and some late penalties on property taxes but i can say, I've never been successfully sued in 15 years, because our process is well documented and its not a pattern or pervasive or malicious in intent (Some elements needed to sue in my opinion) if we make a mistake and, I've always made the borrower whole. Shellpoint is a LOT bigger than my bank so, I'm guessing they probably have a decent process in place as well? 

    I'm guessing you have some of the pieces but not all of it? Servicers don't typically just stop impounding for taxes and insurance, if they have impounded in the past. The only why my company stops is by written instruction to cancel. In fact, some states require the borrower to cancel impounds in writing before the lenders/servicer is allowed to cancel so, if they cancelled and you didn't instruct them to, ok maybe they are negligent. However, they cured their negligence by reinstating the impounds for taxes. 

    For the most part, they should pay for any penalties from the tax authority but at the end of the day, if you weren't paying for the taxes through escrow, and they weren't disbursing to the tax authority, but now you are and now they have, it makes sense the payment went up because they are covering the shortage for the period you weren't paying. If you were paying into the impound account this whole time, that's another story.

    The same goes for insurance. You say your agent sent them proof of insurance but yeah, for 15 years I've heard that story and the agent is usually the one dropping the ball. At the end of the day, you changed insurance. If you can document your previous policy (Exhibit A) was from (As an exampled) 03/01/2023-03/01/2024 and your replacement policy (Exhibit B) was from 03/01/2024-03/01/2025, that's it, that's all you need. Those two declaration pages with coverage periods are all you need to document no lapse in coverage. That said, you must also meet the coverage requirements, loss payee/mortgagee clauses, deductible requirements, etc..  If you had no gap in coverage, the lender cannot make you pay for any gap coverage or force placed coverage. They can charge you a million bucks for a force placed policy but you'll get a 100% refund in my scenario. Shellpoint is smart enough not to double cover and try to charge for it.

    If you're just pissed you had to send it several times but it got taken care of ultimate, yeah it sucks but, you aren't going to prevail in any lawsuit. What harm or loss did you suffer? File a complaint with your state agency or their regulatory agency or the FDIC and move on.

  • Paradise, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 871 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:

    @Noah P Bonds

    Qualified written response

    Question would be what are you suing for? You can only sue for actual damages. What damages did you have? Maybe some extra money owed on taxes? So you are gonna sue and spend thousands to collect maybe a few hundred in penalties?

    You won’t get money but if you file complaints they would get fined


     Its actually...Qualified Written Request but who's counting. :)

  • Noah P BondsPro Member
    OP
    Boise, ID · Member since 2019 · 59 posts · 36 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Ron S.:
    Quote from @Noah P Bonds:

    One of my loans was taken over servicing by Shellpoint. Since then it's been a pita for the last 6-8 months. Essentially my taxes suddenly weren't being paid and they subsequently lowered my escrow payment. I initially found out because my county began sending me delinquent notices. After many attempts to explain this to Shellpoint they finally have readjusted the escrow payment to an even larger than initial amount.  I have been trying to explain this to them since January - it's taken them until June. I had sent them the delinquent notices from the county at least two times. My initial piti payment was 8,870 now it will be 10,359.To make matters more messy I changed insurance during this time - they repeatedly sent me notices that they did not have proof of insurance...I had my insurance rep send them the docs several times before they finally acknowledged the new insurance. I don't know if this is worth pursuing but I feel like they've really dropped the ball over and over. I'm guessing It's not worth it, but I would like to hear if anyone has ever sued a loan servicer and what they outcome was.


    I'm a bank and I get sued all the time. I also manage the insurance and escrow department for my bank and while we make mistakes, we fix them and we make sure we pay for any penalties if its our fault. I've had to pay for some insurance premiums and some late penalties on property taxes but i can say, I've never been successfully sued in 15 years, because our process is well documented and its not a pattern or pervasive or malicious in intent (Some elements needed to sue in my opinion) if we make a mistake and, I've always made the borrower whole. Shellpoint is a LOT bigger than my bank so, I'm guessing they probably have a decent process in place as well? 

    I'm guessing you have some of the pieces but not all of it? Servicers don't typically just stop impounding for taxes and insurance, if they have impounded in the past. The only why my company stops is by written instruction to cancel. In fact, some states require the borrower to cancel impounds in writing before the lenders/servicer is allowed to cancel so, if they cancelled and you didn't instruct them to, ok maybe they are negligent. However, they cured their negligence by reinstating the impounds for taxes. 

    For the most part, they should pay for any penalties from the tax authority but at the end of the day, if you weren't paying for the taxes through escrow, and they weren't disbursing to the tax authority, but now you are and now they have, it makes sense the payment went up because they are covering the shortage for the period you weren't paying. If you were paying into the impound account this whole time, that's another story.

    The same goes for insurance. You say your agent sent them proof of insurance but yeah, for 15 years I've heard that story and the agent is usually the one dropping the ball. At the end of the day, you changed insurance. If you can document your previous policy (Exhibit A) was from (As an exampled) 03/01/2023-03/01/2024 and your replacement policy (Exhibit B) was from 03/01/2024-03/01/2025, that's it, that's all you need. Those two declaration pages with coverage periods are all you need to document no lapse in coverage. That said, you must also meet the coverage requirements, loss payee/mortgagee clauses, deductible requirements, etc..  If you had no gap in coverage, the lender cannot make you pay for any gap coverage or force placed coverage. They can charge you a million bucks for a force placed policy but you'll get a 100% refund in my scenario. Shellpoint is smart enough not to double cover and try to charge for it.

    If you're just pissed you had to send it several times but it got taken care of ultimate, yeah it sucks but, you aren't going to prevail in any lawsuit. What harm or loss did you suffer? File a complaint with your state agency or their regulatory agency or the FDIC and move on.


    Thanks for the reply. I've moved on at this point. The insurance issue was resolved, but only after the agent called them a few times. The impound issue began when they took over servicing. There was one loan that covered three tax parcels and they were only paying for one parcel. I think I've got that resolved at this point. I'm mostly just mad that it took so much of my time to get it sorted. Prob 20 hrs of the most aggravating phone calls explaining it to them over and over.

  • Melanie P.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 922 votes
    2y

    @Noah P Bonds You don't have any damages to sue over. The move here is if you're going to go that route sue them for $2,000 in small claims court for "improperly managing my account, #_______." You'll get a call from their lawyer once you serve it and they will be able to resolve your issues. For the cost of filing fees and service fees you get someone with the wherewithal, authority and motivation to fix your problem. You have no hope of any recovery and need to agree to dismiss the case. Don't go into court and look insane. 

  • Joe S.Pro Member
    Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @JD Martin:
    Quote from @Noah P Bonds:

    This was actually one of the options they gave me. I was told that after 24 months they can allow it. I opted to keep paying TI out of escrow for now. It feels a little safer for me to do it that way. Maybe once the dust settles I'll take the plunge. What do you like about paying it yourself? Do you ever worry about getting behind on those?


     It's way "safer" paying it yourself. Once about 20 years ago one of my mortgage services didn't pay my property taxes even though they were escrowed. They kept giving me nonsense about what the delay was but the crux of it was that I ended up having to pay it myself to keep from getting a tax lien put on my property and settle up later out of escrow. That was the end of letting the servicer pay on my behalf. Besides, paying on your own gives you options. For example, my tax bills are considered payable from October through February without penalty. I choose the calendar year I pay in based on where I am with deductions for the year; if I'm already maxed on deductions I hold the payment until January; that gives me potentially double deductions that year. 

    I don’t have a lot of confidence that just anyone could put the money aside to pay their taxes and insurance yearly. If a person cannot afford to make their taxes and insurance payments on a monthly schedule, how would they have the personal discipline to set it aside for yearly lump payments?

  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Joe S.:
    Quote from @JD Martin:
    Quote from @Noah P Bonds:

    This was actually one of the options they gave me. I was told that after 24 months they can allow it. I opted to keep paying TI out of escrow for now. It feels a little safer for me to do it that way. Maybe once the dust settles I'll take the plunge. What do you like about paying it yourself? Do you ever worry about getting behind on those?


     It's way "safer" paying it yourself. Once about 20 years ago one of my mortgage services didn't pay my property taxes even though they were escrowed. They kept giving me nonsense about what the delay was but the crux of it was that I ended up having to pay it myself to keep from getting a tax lien put on my property and settle up later out of escrow. That was the end of letting the servicer pay on my behalf. Besides, paying on your own gives you options. For example, my tax bills are considered payable from October through February without penalty. I choose the calendar year I pay in based on where I am with deductions for the year; if I'm already maxed on deductions I hold the payment until January; that gives me potentially double deductions that year. 

    I don’t have a lot of confidence that just anyone could put the money aside to pay their taxes and insurance yearly. If a person cannot afford to make their taxes and insurance payments on a monthly schedule, how would they have the personal discipline to set it aside for yearly lump payments?


     Anyone lacking that discipline probably isn't an investor at all! Owning rental property requires discipline beyond taxes and insurance - your capital reserves should be well beyond just your cost of insurance and taxes.

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