What's your definition of excessive noise RE:kids running around in an upstairs apt?

Question

An upper apartment in the building I own has hardwood floors with a
great tenant. The tenant in the one below it (another great tenant
other than this constant complaint)  complains that, when the tenant
in the upper apartment has her grandkids over they constantly run
back and forth between one of the bedrooms and the living room. They
come over for about 3 hours 3 times/week never past 9:30p. I’ve
talked to the upper tenant and she got a throw rug for the hallway
and part of the living room. That didn’t help. The lower tenant
claims that, if I don’t stop the unreasonable noise I am violating
the lower tenant's “right to the quiet enjoyment” of his
property. I asked my manager to go & check out the noise when it
happens.  He asked the question….what is excessive noise? Any
thoughts on this?

Nathan Gesner · Answer

Kids are kids. You can't discriminate against them and you shouldn't tell them to stop being kids.

The Tenant downstairs needs to find a way to block the noise for those occasions. If they can't, then I would offer to let them out of the lease with 30 days notice and no penalty.

I have apartments that are poorly insulated. When it's quite in the morning, the downstairs Tenant can hear the upstairs tenant talking on the phone, closing cabinets, peeing, and other things. It's incredibly annoying, but I disarm all the complaints by explaining this up front, usually more than once. I encourage people with children to rent the downstairs units. Lots of disclosure is about the only thing you can do.

Start by sharing this video:

Theresa Harris · Answer

Do the kids have shoes on in the house?  If they are constantly running inside, it can be annoying.  If it only happens occasionally, kids are kids.

Allan Smith · Answer

Haha yeah get the kids some special quiet shoes!

otherwise better insulation and construction quality is the main thing. Can’t tell tenants not to use their apt.

Tom Maurer · Answer

Ok...that video.....wow!!!  That was FUNNY!!!!

Bruce Woodruff · Answer

Carpet padding won't help on hard floors...and frankly, sometimes little kids can be more annoying...they have a way of fast-slapping their feet,,,

Chris Merchant · Answer

Excessive noise means any unnecessary noise which persists for ten minutes or more; such period of noise need not be witnessed by enforcement personnel if the occupants of two or more separate housing or commercial units certify that they have experienced such period of noise and describe with particularity the sourceExcessive noise means the presence of sound, as measured by standard testing devices, of a volume or in quantities and for durations which endangers human health, welfare or safety, animal life, or property or which unreasonably interferes with the comfortable enjoyment of life and property in the County or in such areas of the County as are affected thereby.There is 2 "legal" definitions of excessive noise

Monique P. · Answer

Hi Tom,

If you google “excessive noise” there are lots of definitions that pop up. For example, “Excessive noise is any noise that is under human control and of such a nature as to unreasonably interfere with the peace, comfort and convenience of any person.”.

Every city and county have their own noise ordinances.  Such as, noise cannot exceed 55 decibels otherwise it’s considered a nuisance. Maybe consider purchasing NoiseAware and place one in each tenant’s space this way you can all track it together in order to keep the peace. It does not record conversations, nor does it have a camera. It just measures decibel levels over time. https://noiseaware.com/

EDIT * just realized maybe Noise Aware is not allowed in apartment buildings? This is common for short term vacation rentals. Maybe if you get everyone's permission and sign agreement, it's then ok??

Hope it gets better for everyone!

Bill B. · Answer

If it’s noisy does it matter if it kids running? What if it’s an adult blasting music or a video game for the exact amount of time and frequency? If you’re bing disturbed you don’t really care what’s causing it. It’s why people don’t want to live next to a freeway, an intersection, or even a busy street.

I’m not saying you can fix it. I’m saying you probably have to let lower level tenant otu of their lease. What if the replacement tenant says the same thing? Are the units comparable? Could they swap?

Ned J. · Answer

3 hours at a time 3x week is pushing it for me to tell the lower tenant, that they are just going to have to complain to the upper tenant.....keep me out of it...work it out.

I assume she's acting as child care for her grandkids? They either need to quiet it down.....good luck with that..... or stop having the kids there that often and that long.

If you let the lower tenant out of their lease, the real issue doesn't go away and you may be back at square one with the next tenant. The issue is the upper tenant..... that much noise that frequently has to stop or they move out...or swap units......

Chris Seveney · Answer

@Tom Maurer

You could check either when the property was built and the required stc rating required at that time (or last renovation). If you meet those requirements then you are doing nothing wrong.

I will say I have seen condo developments that are wood framed that forbid the installation of hardwood floors except the first level due to hardwood and the noise it makes.

What's your definition of excessive noise RE:kids running around in an upstairs apt?

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