Collecting rent when tenant says they don't have it

Collecting rent when tenant says they don't have it

Rental Property Investor · Shoreview, MN · Member since 2021 · 19 posts · 18 votes

I self manage a single family home as a rental in St. Paul, Minnesota.  Three women signed the lease together last summer and have been good tenants since then for the most part.  About a week before January 1st, one of the three let me know she was laid off and "her portion of the rent might be late", meaning, she wouldn't pay January's rent on the first.  Rent is $2100 a month, and the three of them likely split it evenly, $700 each, since sure enough, on the first I was paid $1400, not $2100.  I let her know that it doesn't work like that really.  Rent is $2100 a month, and how they split it up is their business, not mine.  I told her I was sorry she lost her job, and hoped she'd find work again soon.  She took a few days to respond, but then promised me that it would be a little late like she expected, but I'd have the rent by the first week of January.  Well, it's January 9th now, and I still haven't been paid the remaining rent, and she didn't respond to my latest message or answer the phone when I called.

If all $2100 wasn't paid, I'd be looking to take my appropriate legal action right away.  However, I am still cash flow positive even with only 2/3 of rent, so I'm trying to coax this remaining rent out of them without alienating the two of them that paid their "share" of rent because there are six months left of this lease, counting January, and I'd rather not go through an eviction if I can avoid it.

I just texted all of them for the first time to remind them that I am owed that remaining amount and that they are subject to a late fee.


How hardball do you have to play these situations?  Have I already been too lenient?  I feel bad for my tenant if she lost a job but I see "help wanted" and "hiring" signs practically everywhere I go so I'm not too sympathetic to the idea that she can't get a job to make rent.  She's an able bodied grown woman.


Thanks in advance for your help.

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Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
3y

what does your lease say. If the roomates are responsible "jointly and severally" you can simply start the regular process for late rent payment, notifying them they are late, have so many days to correct before action is taken against ALL of them. Unfortunate, but there is no pressure like roomate pressure.

It sounds like you have been treating them as one entity so keep doing that. If you rented to them separately thats something else.

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  • Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    what does your lease say. If the roomates are responsible "jointly and severally" you can simply start the regular process for late rent payment, notifying them they are late, have so many days to correct before action is taken against ALL of them. Unfortunate, but there is no pressure like roomate pressure.

    It sounds like you have been treating them as one entity so keep doing that. If you rented to them separately thats something else.

  • Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    oh and you may want to remind the other two that their credit and rental rep will be affected as much as hers.

  • Rental Property Investor · Shoreview, MN · Member since 2021 · 19 posts · 18 votes
    3y

    The lease is a standard lease agreement that is provided by the state of Minnesota.  Term 5 of the lease is "Each Tenant Responsible" which states that each tenant is responsible for all money due to Landlord under this Lease, not just a proportionate share.  I did not rent to them separately.

    Thanks for the response.  If I continue to not get answers I will remind them that their credit can be affected as well.

  • Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    Also remind them that if you are forced to evict one then you are evicting all...they can come up with a payment plan with their roommate if they want to. They can also evaluate her performance of a job search since they're there to see what she is and isn't doing each day. This is the part I'm not wired for, but the reality is this is the way it needs to be. Having 'worked' with my first tenant in 2008ish and trying to help work it out...I can tell you the only one trying was me. They provided just enough payment to keep things rolling with me, and I was out several thousand dollars...I've since learned it just needs to be done or I'm going to get walked all over. 

  • Jeff SchemmelBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Saint Paul, MN · Member since 2014 · 384 posts · 401 votes
    3y

    @Grigoriy Gorshteyn any recommendations you might provide from a seasoned PM perspective?  I feel like an official (scary) written notice to pay or quit is overdue to be posted on the front door.  The deadline is already passed, and they are basically thinking the situation is fluid because there haven't been consequences.

    -Jeff

  • Jaron WallingPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y

    @Matt Devincenzo "Also remind them that if you are forced to evict one then you are evicting all" - This exactly and nobody wins. I'm sure it's already hurting the relationships between the tenants which is unfortunate. How rent gets divided up is not the land lords responsibility. 

    My roommates and I lived with a couch surfer in college for a period of time. He wasn't working, contributed nothing, and ate our food. We kicked him out after 3 months. I say you got about 3 months or $2100 (700x3) in lost rent give or take. Just my 2 cents. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    One other thought...you may actually be doing the other tenants a favor by being the bad guy. They get empowered to deal with the non-paying roommate because now they have standing with her to get her to pay. They have to live with her, so they aren't likely to want to call her out if they don't have to. But I bet there will be some relief at being able to say to her that she has to pay or they all are in trouble. 

    To that end, post the note and maybe give one of the (other) tenants a verbal heads up that you have to follow the process but you value them as tenants and hope they can work it out with her, and that if she moves out because its not financially feasible for her to stay you would be willing to add an additional person to the lease as long as they meet your screening criteria...

  • Rental Property Investor · Shoreview, MN · Member since 2021 · 19 posts · 18 votes
    3y

    Thanks everyone for your advice.

    **Update**

    Texting the whole group and mentioning the late fee seemed to do the trick.  The other two tenants have already reached out and promised that I will receive rent today.  It hasn't come through yet, but I can tell they are serious and very apologetic.  I suspect they will kick their roommate in the butt if necessary to not screw up their living situation.

    I think I should have involved those roommates from the moment I only received 2/3 of the rent and reminded them that they all owe rent in full, and there are no "portions" of rent from my perspective.  I will provide more updates as they happen.

  • John MorganPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Grand Prairie, TX · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    @Peter Christensen

    This happens all the time to me. I currently have two tenants that are behind and splitting it up like this. I don’t sweat it. They always end up paying me eventually so it’s all good. This is why most of these people will always be renters. They live pay check to paycheck and don’t have a plan B.

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Peter Christensen:

    I'm glad to hear it seems to be working out.

    "Joint and Several Liability" means all Tenants are 100% responsible for all terms of the lease, including the payment of rent. It doesn't matter who pays how much. Your only concern is that rent is due in full no later than the first day of each month. If it's not, all tenants are responsible and you should be notifying all of them of the violation. If there is a noise complaint or car parked on the lawn or unauthorized dog, you notify all of them. If you evict one, you evict them all.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
  • Property Manager · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 728 posts · 596 votes
    3y

    @Peter Christensen

    Follow the process. In my state, they are allowed 5 day grace period. After that, I send a 10 day notice to pay. That gives her 15 days and let's them know you have a process that sets the rules. After the 10 day, then it is up to you whether you start eviction on all 3 of them. If you follow the process, at least all options are open for you.

  • Rental Property Investor · Shoreview, MN · Member since 2021 · 19 posts · 18 votes
    3y

    **Update**

    I received the rent yesterday evening, so all is good, for now at least.

    I'm still a very inexperienced renter and all of my other tenants have always paid in full and on time.  I've been lucky.

    Just another situation I've had to encounter for the first time that won't be as scary next time.

    I appreciate all of the sage advice.

  • Investor · Apple Valley, MN · Member since 2013 · 281 posts · 94 votes
    3y

    In the state of Minnesota, one should be able to get their first unemployment check in about a week.  Ask her about this?   As others have said, I would stick to your lease and not stray.  You should have already delivered a Late Rent Notice:

    Send a Late Rent NoticeThis is a piece of paper reminding the tenant that the rent is past-due. It should include a list of all fees that are owed (including late fees) and a warning about further legal action you'll have to take if the rent isn't paid in full very soon.

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2015 · 25 posts · 10 votes
    3y

    @Jeff Schemmel I think that as a business owner - which owning Rental Properties is - you have to pick a strategy and stick to it. Long term you will save a lot of time and money doing the same thing every time. So you can choose to always work with your tenants and give them time, payment plans, etc... or you can choose to be filing eviction after two late notices and no payment after the 15th of the month. Personally on my rentals I choose to work with the tenants as they are low income families on various subsidized programs. As a property manager I encourage all of our clients to be prompt about filing eviction as that is the best way to make sure tenants know that you aren't going to play the long game with them and so they don't fall months behind. There is a time for mediations before eviction and the tenants can sign a payment plan at that time that will be enforced by the courts and if they fail to meet those guidelines eviction is much easier. Not an attorney - not providing legal advice. Hope this helps! 

  • Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    @Peter Christensen you just got a toe in the water on dealing with late rent, so take this as a good thing. My first no/slow pay was 2008 on a flip turned rental and I was...20 years old...let me tell you I ended up with a nearly 10K lesson on no pay tenants that won't ever pay. It's not my strong suite, but I deal with slow/no pay right away up front because I know how the bumps and bruises of not doing it work out. So next time you'll be better prepared for what may be a harder won battle with the next tenant. 

  • Real Estate Consultant · Cleveland · Member since 2020 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Peter Christensen:

    I self manage a single family home as a rental in St. Paul, Minnesota.  Three women signed the lease together last summer and have been good tenants since then for the most part.  About a week before January 1st, one of the three let me know she was laid off and "her portion of the rent might be late", meaning, she wouldn't pay January's rent on the first.  Rent is $2100 a month, and the three of them likely split it evenly, $700 each, since sure enough, on the first I was paid $1400, not $2100.  I let her know that it doesn't work like that really.  Rent is $2100 a month, and how they split it up is their business, not mine.  I told her I was sorry she lost her job, and hoped she'd find work again soon.  She took a few days to respond, but then promised me that it would be a little late like she expected, but I'd have the rent by the first week of January.  Well, it's January 9th now, and I still haven't been paid the remaining rent, and she didn't respond to my latest message or answer the phone when I called.

    If all $2100 wasn't paid, I'd be looking to take my appropriate legal action right away.  However, I am still cash flow positive even with only 2/3 of rent, so I'm trying to coax this remaining rent out of them without alienating the two of them that paid their "share" of rent because there are six months left of this lease, counting January, and I'd rather not go through an eviction if I can avoid it.

    I just texted all of them for the first time to remind them that I am owed that remaining amount and that they are subject to a late fee.


    How hardball do you have to play these situations?  Have I already been too lenient?  I feel bad for my tenant if she lost a job but I see "help wanted" and "hiring" signs practically everywhere I go so I'm not too sympathetic to the idea that she can't get a job to make rent.  She's an able bodied grown woman.


    Thanks in advance for your help.


     Serve 3 day notice, that will get their attention. But if they did lose their job, oh well, this is not charity, its YOUR business, evict if no payment

  • Jay ThomasPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · Houston, TX · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 715 votes
    3y

    It's important to refer back to your lease and double-check the roommates' responsibility. If they are responsible "jointly and severally," you should start the regular process for late rent payment by notifying them that they are late and have a certain amount of time to correct the issue before action is taken against all of them. It may be an unfortunate situation, but there is no better way to encourage prompt payments than to involve all roommates in the process. Keep treating them as one entity. However, if you did rent out the room separately, then this might be a different story. Good luck!

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Peter Christensen:

    I self manage a single family home as a rental in St. Paul, Minnesota.  Three women signed the lease together last summer and have been good tenants since then for the most part.  About a week before January 1st, one of the three let me know she was laid off and "her portion of the rent might be late", meaning, she wouldn't pay January's rent on the first.  Rent is $2100 a month, and the three of them likely split it evenly, $700 each, since sure enough, on the first I was paid $1400, not $2100.  I let her know that it doesn't work like that really.  Rent is $2100 a month, and how they split it up is their business, not mine.  I told her I was sorry she lost her job, and hoped she'd find work again soon.  She took a few days to respond, but then promised me that it would be a little late like she expected, but I'd have the rent by the first week of January.  Well, it's January 9th now, and I still haven't been paid the remaining rent, and she didn't respond to my latest message or answer the phone when I called.

    If all $2100 wasn't paid, I'd be looking to take my appropriate legal action right away.  However, I am still cash flow positive even with only 2/3 of rent, so I'm trying to coax this remaining rent out of them without alienating the two of them that paid their "share" of rent because there are six months left of this lease, counting January, and I'd rather not go through an eviction if I can avoid it.

    I just texted all of them for the first time to remind them that I am owed that remaining amount and that they are subject to a late fee.


    How hardball do you have to play these situations?  Have I already been too lenient?  I feel bad for my tenant if she lost a job but I see "help wanted" and "hiring" signs practically everywhere I go so I'm not too sympathetic to the idea that she can't get a job to make rent.  She's an able bodied grown woman.


    Thanks in advance for your help.

     Iron fist, in a velvet glove. How's that work. 

    Look, stuff happens to people every day. Every day someone get's in a car wreck, sucks without doubt, and i do not donate my vehicles to them. People lose there jobs and again sucks, but it's not my responsibility to pay there bills, and ANY expectation of such is THEFT. 

    There is no guilt to be had in upholding and agreement, EXPECTING people to do as they promised. Can you call them up and say "oh hey ladies, sorry, there's gonna be no heat for a week, i messed up, but I will work on it when I can ok" and to then go weeks without heat. Nope, they wouldn't let you do that for 5 minutes right, and you shouldn't, but why are you a tenants charity organization? Does Aldi hand out food to people who say they didn't bring $? 

    Everything you let slide WILL be taken as weakness. There ignoring you shows there respect level, it's 0. The more you do nothing, the more your a pushover, the more they will take advantage, push and push and push, because your allowing it. 

    I wouldn't have rushed to evict myself BUT I would have corrected them and said no, that's not how things work. That they can either (a) move out immediately voluntarily, (b) I can give THEM an 30 day LOAN at $___ for the remainder of rents or (c) I will have to file eviction paperwork and suite for judgement against all 3. 

    Rules, it's what separate us from the animals. 

    Keep in mind, in there mind your the rich a-hole landlord. No tenant will ever fully appreciate you, ever. This is business, treat it like business or get owned. Welcome to reality, it's as brutal as you allow it to be. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y

    @Peter Christensen hang in there. They’ll pay

  • Ned J.Pro Member
    Investor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    Glad it worked out... this time.

    As stated, you treat them as one tenant..... follow your lease and the law in your state. As soon as they are late, you tack on the late fee... then 10 days notice and eviction process starts. 

    Not my problem on why you cant pay rent.... you dont pay, the eviction process starts. If you pay up, it stops. No sob stories, no excuses..... not my problem. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2017 · 383 posts · 248 votes
    3y

    Follow your lease, every month, every time.

  • Investor · Costa Mesa, CA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y

    I never accept partial rent. I run a business not a charity.

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