Filing a FOIA to Find Out if Title is Insurable

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Filing a FOIA to Find Out if Title is Insurable

Alvin Grier
Detroit, MI · Member since 2012 · 170 posts · 21 votes

Has anyone ever filed a FOIA request with a municipality to find out if the title on a property is insurable?

I overheard someone at the title company the other day talking about filing a FOIA to find out if a particular property that was bought at a tax auction had an insurable title.

I can do that myself, if that's all it takes, as I've filed numerous FOIA's in the past.

My question, though, is if I file a FOIA with the local Register of Deeds (R.O.D), is it as simple as saying, "Please let me know if the title on 123 Main St. is insurable or not?"

I didn't know if I would need to be more specific, and spell out each and every type of situation that could've occurred in the past on the title chain that could prevent the title being insured or not.

...as I type, I'm thinking that it's likely that the level of specifics I include would depend on the competency level of the person handling the request at the ROD office.

Yeah, I know, I can ask the people at the Register of Deeds office...  if only they answered the phone.  Furthermore I'm trying to avoid having to drive down there to ask in-person if at all possible :-)

...and yes, I also realize that I could simply call the title company and ask (and I may do that on Monday), but hey, any chance I get to talk with you guys on here I take advantage.

Thanks in advance.

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Wayne Brooks
Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
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You're misunderstanding something, towns don't make determinations if title to a particular property is clear.  They can only tell you what is in Their records, which is the whole purpose of the inquiry, and a FOIA request is usually Not the proper method, the agency will have a particular procedure...FOIA is usually someone's dumb a$$ idea of how to get the information, because they don't know any better.

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  • Adrien C.
    Property Manager · Griffith, IN · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 913 votes
    10y

    I've had to file w a few specific towns not for title but to see if the property had any fines or fees on it that would need to be paid at closing. I can't imagine what say a town would have as to whether or not title is clean outside of their jurisdiction. 

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  • Wayne Brooks
    Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    You're misunderstanding something, towns don't make determinations if title to a particular property is clear.  They can only tell you what is in Their records, which is the whole purpose of the inquiry, and a FOIA request is usually Not the proper method, the agency will have a particular procedure...FOIA is usually someone's dumb a$$ idea of how to get the information, because they don't know any better.

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  • Alvin Grier
    OP
    Detroit, MI · Member since 2012 · 170 posts · 21 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Wayne Brooks:

    You're misunderstanding something, towns don't make determinations if title to a particular property is clear.  They can only tell you what is in Their records, which is the whole purpose of the inquiry, and a FOIA request is usually Not the proper method, the agency will have a particular procedure...FOIA is usually someone's dumb a$$ idea of how to get the information, because they don't know any better.

    That might be true, however I heard it from the title company's personnel themselves, when they said, "Hey, we can have Julie file the FOIA request Monday to find out about whether or not the title is insurable in it's current state..."

    So with me having tons of experience filing FOIA's, I thought, "Hell, I may as well save $400 and do it myself, if all they do is file a FOIA to get this info."

    I'd say probably 40% of the investors that call my phone looking to sell a house acquired the property from a tax sale.  

    We normally tell them we're not interested once we find out where they got it from, however if I can file a simple FOIA to make sure I'm not buying someone else's problems, I'm all for it.

    The sellers are never willing to spend the $400 for the title search. 

    And since it's gotta be paid whether I end up buying it or not, if I can save $400 and do the search myself in all of 10 minutes, tops, why not?

    I'm just trying to find out how the title company is going about making the inquiry, because I'm sure they won't tell me.

    Thanks for taking the time to reply, by the way, Wayne...

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  • Alvin Grier
    OP
    Detroit, MI · Member since 2012 · 170 posts · 21 votes
    10y

    ...and I understand that a municipality isn't gonna say "yeah, 123 Main St. has a clear title," but I do think that they could provide the information that would help me make that determination myself.

    I'm sure it isn't rocket science.  

    It's just a situation where the title company (mistakenly) revealed how they do something, and I'm trying to figure out how to do it myself, because the high-level explanation sounds pretty simple.

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  • Wayne Brooks
    Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    @Alvin Grier My point was, whether by FOIA, or by other method of request, they simply can't tell you if the property has clear title.....they can only tell you what is recorded in their dept.....which the whole purpose of a title do. questing 3 or 4 different depts during a title search, and the Title Co. renders an opinion about the insurability of a property....not the dept they requested the info from.

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  • Alvin Grier
    OP
    Detroit, MI · Member since 2012 · 170 posts · 21 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Wayne Brooks:

    @Alvin Grier My point was, whether by FOIA, or by other method of request, they simply can't tell you if the property has clear title.....they can only tell you what is recorded in their dept.....which the whole purpose of a title do. questing 3 or 4 different depts during a title search, and the Title Co. renders an opinion about the insurability of a property....not the dept they requested the info from.

     Makes sense.  I figured as such.

    Overall, I was just trying to make sure a title search isn't something I can do myself, once I heard that all they do is a FOIA request (assuming that's true).

    Even if they question 3 or 4 departments, I'm sure that's something my assistant could do, since all the info is probably public record, it's normally a matter of just knowing what to look for, and knowing how to analyze said information.

    I'm not desperate financially by any means, but if I can save $400, and have my assistant do this stuff in their normal duties, I've saved a couple tanks of gas.  LOL

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  • Rick H.
    Lender · Greater LA/Orange County area, CA · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    I've acquired many, many properties without benefit of title insurance. 

    For me, it's an educated risk that I've evaluated because I'm comfortable fixing title problems that others either do not understand or are not willing to correct post acquisition.

    The place for FOIA is to gain access to information that's not available to the general public or via traditional commercial data aggregators, resellers or even researchers. 

    Why don't you "invest" some of that title insurance money into title research training? The money you'll invest will be returned perhaps 5X, 10X or WAY more, as I've concluded. In addition, you'll have both a competitive advantage and may even position yourself as the go-to expert in your market.

    1Reply
  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    The short answer is NO. As Wayne said that is not how title searches are done. A FOIA would probably take a long time to get a response also; weeks instead of days. 

    A full title review includes Land records search, bankruptcy search, Judgment search, municipal lien search among other things. As @Rick H. it is worth learning to do these things yourself. Some of them can be done online.  Here is a good site to check out 

    Pubic records online

    In the case of a tax sale property, the foreclosure process has to be examined to determine if there could be any challenges to the case. In the case of a tax deed sale perhaps a FOIA would get the documents from the municipality to check how they handled the taking of the property. 

    Most importantly you need to be able to interpret the information you receive. That is really what you are paying the title company for.

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