Redfin "Leaving" NAR

Redfin "Leaving" NAR

Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes

In a letter which was published on their website this morning, Redfin announced that they are moving to end their support of the National Association of Realtors (NAR). Redfin will begin "requiring our brokers and agents to leave NAR everywhere we can." The letter listed two main reasons for the brokerage's decision: NAR policies requiring a fee for the buyer's agent and "a pattern of alleged sexual harassment". Since joining NAR in 2017, Redfin said that it has paid "more than $13 million in dues, in an effort to influence NAR to advocate for an open, technology-driven marketplace that would benefit consumers." In leaving NAR, the brokerage said it will explore other ways to achieve those goals.

Redfin doesn't have a lot of market share in my area as a brokerage. We very rarely ever see their signs in yards here and I don't know a single agent working for them personally. I've never done a transaction with them and the only time I've actually come across them "in the wild" was when a few buyers I've known used them to see properties at their convenience (but not to buy those properties). I know a lot of people like to use their website and app to look at MLS listings or reference their home value estimator to see what their home might be worth (hopefully realizing it's a very approximate estimate). I don't think Redfin can actually leave the local board of Realtors in my area or else they would lose their access (or have degraded access for more money) to our MLS that NAR controls. They wouldn't be able to do business in the same way they have been without access to the MLS as their website and app wouldn't be able to populate listings, and their agents wouldn't have access to the showing service we use to open doors. So maybe the announcement is just lip-service/ negotiating bluster and they're not really "leaving" NAR in most places?

Thoughts on how this will effect the industry? Will this create a domino effect with other large brokerages "leaving" NAR? Redfin stock prices looked really dire throughout 2022, at one point crashing 96% from their all time high, then rebounding somewhat in the first half of 2023 until plunging 36% again in August. Their stock price is slightly down today as of this writing. Is this just a cost-savings measure related to that $13M in dues that they mention in the letter, or are you convinced that the real reason is what they say it is? Any other insights from people "in the know"?

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Russell BrazilBusiness Member
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Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
3y

Sounds like a big deal.....but in reality it is not. Most individual Redfin brokers and their agents will remain members so as to be able to access Realtor Association forms and to be able to access Realtor Association owned MLS systems. As Glen Kelman their CEO said....."where ever possible." And realistically for most of there agents, especially in a discount model, they are not floating the cost of induvial contracts at $2k a transaction, when a couple hundred dollars a year gets them contracts for every transaction.

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  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    3y

    Sounds like a big deal.....but in reality it is not. Most individual Redfin brokers and their agents will remain members so as to be able to access Realtor Association forms and to be able to access Realtor Association owned MLS systems. As Glen Kelman their CEO said....."where ever possible." And realistically for most of there agents, especially in a discount model, they are not floating the cost of induvial contracts at $2k a transaction, when a couple hundred dollars a year gets them contracts for every transaction.

  • Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    Sounds like a big deal.....but in reality it is not. Most individual Redfin brokers and their agents will remain members so as to be able to access Realtor Association forms and to be able to access Realtor Association owned MLS systems. As Glen Kelman their CEO said....."were ever possible." And realistically for most of there agents, especially in a discount model, they are not floating the cost of induvial contracts at $2k a transaction, when a couple hundred dollars a year gets them contracts for every transaction.

    Yeah I was wondering where exactly it would actually be possible. Probably not many places. 
  • Doug SmithPro Member
    Lender · Tampa, FL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    I'm not a fan of NAR as they continually seem to sell real estate agents out to the likes of Zillow, but good luck with that, Redfin.

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Doug Smith:

    I'm not a fan of NAR as they continually seem to sell real estate agents out to the likes of Zillow, but good luck with that, Redfin.


    Zillow is an NAR member. Is your suggestion that NAR should favor certain members at the expense of other members?

  • Doug SmithPro Member
    Lender · Tampa, FL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    Yes

  • Doug SmithPro Member
    Lender · Tampa, FL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:
    Quote from @Doug Smith:

    I'm not a fan of NAR as they continually seem to sell real estate agents out to the likes of Zillow, but good luck with that, Redfin.


    Zillow is an NAR member. Is your suggestion that NAR should favor certain members at the expense of other members?

    No...but they do

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Doug Smith:

    Yes


     Well that is an anti-trust violation. So not going to happen.

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    3y

    @Steve K. While Redfin is a sizable company, I question there market presence as in my market they are also a nothing-burger. 

    And for what they are declaring to be effective, that means over-taking the MLS in various areas. I recall that also being Zillow's plan, and the result was a disaster for them.

    What Redfin is effectively doing is saying it want's to cut-off resources for it's agents, in-house not only a sizable expense but also liability in it's own transactional forms for every market of operation. Than, have it's agent's operate there actions cut-off from the MLS resources in listing or acquisition actions, which while they can pump traffic I think there missing the impact of agent segmentation. NAR/MLS agents will struggle with operating in Redfins system, just as happened with Zillow. So your segmenting off all those potential buyer son your listings. And vice versa.

    Than comes to non-NAR contracts being presented, again Zillow went through all this too and found many brokers getting to point of instructing agents to not even touch those contracts. All depends what BS they put into them.

    This is where tech seems to consistently get it wrong with real estate. Just because someone can have a great performing website, it does not result in anything without the boots on the ground, and NAR dominates in boot's on the ground to such an extent that it's hard to call it anything other than complete and total domination.

    So Redfin's argument is, there going to do it with only their boot's on the ground, cut out the other 99.5%, and things will be fine. I don't think they will be fine. 

    I think best case agents will say no-way they can operate without NAR/MLS and it will be lip service. Or Redfin will press the issue, loose agents, will retain traffic but conversion too closed deals will fall off a cliff and with that, will start loosing reputation, client base, and agents, evoking a downward spiral.

    I think if NAR is smart, they do what they seem to be doing now, wave good-bye as Redfin goes out the door and tell em "good luck with that", and do nothing to beg Redfin back. Let em go, very honestly we don't need em.

    Personally I agree with what Redfin is saying, I just disagree with the effectiveness of what they are doing. Redfin is a big company, but an ant in comparison to vested interest and parties in NAR/MLS.

    If NAR/MLS decides to cut them off, oh-man, say bye-bye to probably 50% of their agents the next day, if not more. And again, they can have all the web traffic but without agents to do anything with that traffic, it's worthless.

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Doug Smith:
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:
    Quote from @Doug Smith:

    I'm not a fan of NAR as they continually seem to sell real estate agents out to the likes of Zillow, but good luck with that, Redfin.


    Zillow is an NAR member. Is your suggestion that NAR should favor certain members at the expense of other members?

    No...but they do


    How so?

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