First full deal...plus long term holding advice needed.

First full deal...plus long term holding advice needed.

Contractor · Bellingham, WA · Member since 2017 · 31 posts · 45 votes

Just closed on my first full deal. I have another rental prop on my own land (I unknowingly house hacked  by turning a second building on my property into a rental which generates $950/month CF). I have done a flip with a partner before as a mold mitigation contractor, but this is my first full blown rental property. 

Single Family home in Bellingham, WA. I was called in by a RE agent to give an estimate to do an interior gut. 3 br. 2 ba. 2 story, 1620 sq ft, late 70s build. Severely water damaged and moldy. The second I stepped out of it I called my father. We'd been looking for a while for a house to flip together. I said we needed to jump on it right away. I found the house, he'd provide the financing, I'd provide the mitigation work and we'd sell and split the profits. We made an all cash offer on it and they accepted. Paid $240K. ARV is $370K and there is zero inventory in a desirable neighborhood. Bellingham's housing market is SMOKING STEAMING INCANDESCENT ABOUT TO ACHIEVE NUCLEAR FUSION HOT with housing prices jumping 11%...LAST MONTH.

We closed in 2.5 weeks and the mitigation work was started. It was so bad inside after cooking for 9 months that 10 seconds inside without a respirator and you'd come out gagging. 

2 weeks later after stumbling across BP, reading and listening to Podcasts, I decided it would make a killer investment property. Vacancy rate in this area is currently 0.64% and no, there isn't a missing digit. My father seemed to have the same idea as he called and offered to sell it to me at zero down, Interest only for 3 years at 3%.  No way I could turn that kind of gift down! I closed last Thursday. 

I'll have about $20K into the repairs when all is said and done, leaving me with a conservative $100K in equity. Researching the rental market,  I determined the best way to max out rents was to make it a Pet Friendly rental since I'm a major dog lover and that market is woefully underserved. It has a fenced back yard and I installed pet friendly flooring/etc. Local prop management co estimated it would rent for $1500/mo. I rented it to 3 Aerospace engineers and 2 dogs for $2200/mo. Big Pet Deposit. Big. 

My question for the experienced is this...

I'd like to BRRRR this but I'm 52, so the idea of holding a mortgage for 30 years isn't very appealing as I'd like to use the rental income as my retirement in 15-20 years. If I do a 15 year refi, it won't positive cash flow. So would it be better to put a 30 year refi in and plan on selling for the equity in 20 years or would it be better to stick a 15 year on it and wait for the rent to catch up to the mortgage in about 3-5 years to go neutral and cover expenses? I can afford to cover the $160/mo in Neg CF as an investment though the idea isn't very appealing. Even though I have budgeted for a reserve, as all new systems (plumbing/heating/electrical/insulation/) have gone into the place, the only thing I know I'll need to put funds aside for is a new roof in about 10 years. I plan to manage myself for the time being as I've only got two rentals at this point. Adding another 10% management fee on will make the neg too high for my tastes at this point. So is a 30 year and just wait for rents to rise over the years to give me the cash flow I want for retirement a good idea...or is a fast pay down and cover the negative for a substantial rental income in the future a better idea?

Also, how long of a history do banks typically want to show a rental record before you can do a refi on a first investment property?

I've definitely got the bug and want to start building a rental property portfolio of 2 properties/year to 15-20 in the next decade. I've got about $575K in equity on my own home to draw from if needed, thought the idea makes me a bit queasy. 

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  • Real Estate Agent · Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 65 posts · 29 votes
    9y

    Nice job! Good luck with the mold. That can be difficult to work with. Good idea to use a mask. Good call on Bellingham. People are definitely looking there and prices are rising.

    Banks will usually want the loan to "season" for a year before you can refinance. When you do, you can get your investment money back for the next house. Most experts would tell you to let the bank's money work for you by taking out the lowest down payment you can get on a 30-year loan, especially when rates are low. Most likely, you'll have an exit strategy and want to sell the house and cash out, and then buy more houses.

    Very smart to set aside money for capital improvements like the roof, etc.

    As for equity in current house, your call. If worrying about it and getting queasy, it might not be worth it. I took equity out of my house and am looking for an apartment building to put it into.

  • Commercial Real Estate Broker · Seattle, WA · Member since 2017 · 110 posts · 79 votes
    9y
    Seems like your off to a great start, Congrats. I'm an industrial RE broker and done some work in Bellingham, always liked it as an investment market. I'd love to chat about your thoughts and see if there are anyways we can add value to each other. Best,
  • Contractor · Bellingham, WA · Member since 2017 · 31 posts · 45 votes
    9y

    I own a Mold Remediation company so dealing with Mold is something we do every day. Trust me, on this one, my crew was fully outfitted, neg Air, Scrubbers...the works! 

  • Ann Arbor, MI · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 997 votes
    9y

    @Kevin Enderle funny, i brought my client in there the day after it was listed.  Neither of us had even seen mold issue that bad.  I guess if someone is going to buy it they best own a Mold Remediation company, haha!!

    To answer your question: 
    "I'd like to BRRRR this but I'm 52, so the idea of holding a mortgage for 30 years isn't very appealing as I'd like to use the rental income as my retirement in 15-20 years. If I do a 15 year refi, it won't positive cash flow. So would it be better to put a 30 year refi in and plan on selling for the equity in 20 years or would it be better to stick a 15 year on it and wait for the rent to catch up to the mortgage in about 3-5 years to go neutral and cover expenses? I can afford to cover the $160/mo in Neg CF as an investment though the idea isn't very appealing. Even though I have budgeted for a reserve, as all new systems (plumbing/heating/electrical/insulation/) have gone into the place, the only thing I know I'll need to put funds aside for is a new roof in about 10 years. I plan to manage myself for the time being as I've only got two rentals at this point. Adding another 10% management fee on will make the neg too high for my tastes at this point. So is a 30 year and just wait for rents to rise over the years to give me the cash flow I want for retirement a good idea...or is a fast pay down and cover the negative for a substantial rental income in the future a better idea?"

    ...if you don't need the cashflow right now, go 30 year and sell in 10 (or whenever there's enough equity to get you to the next deal.  Quite frankly, this idea that you MUST HAVE cashflow immediately is just simply flawed.  You need cashflow when you need the cash, i.e. retirement.  Right now you are in growth mode.  

    As a former investment/financial planner let me to make a simple analogy:  prior to retirement you want growth, appreciation, accumulation, etc.  This mean investing in small-cap stocks or emerging markets, for instance.  Higher risk with higher rewards, and given your timeframe you can afford to take a hit or two on the way.  When you retire you want to shift the risk level lower and invest more in sources of income.  At this point, you move into the blue chips and large dividend payers, utility companies, oil & gas, REITS, etc.  Now the growth is modest at best, but the steady stream of cash keeps you warm and comfy in the golden years.  

    For the real estate investor, this translates into buying properties in high appreciation, low risk areas for as little out of pocket (both lump sum and ongoing) as possible. Let that appreciation grow and grow, adding another property whenever you can. Once you're ready to put your feet up, 1031 exchange those SFR rentals into high cashflow multifamilies, apartment buildings, trailer parks, etc.

    Sure, we all WANT huge sums of cash pouring in the door as well as massive growth, but keep in mind that high cashflow properties don't typically do as well in terms of appreciation. The risk you assume when getting high cashflow properties is lesser appreciation. Think of manufactured homes in high-rent areas (Maple Falls). Sure, those guys get 1% rule, but they're not seeing the kind of price appreciation SFR in highly-desired areas are.

    Personally, i think that if you treat investing in real estate like a you would a mutual fund or stock portfolio, for example, and you think LONG-TERM, you will do very well.  

  • Erin ChurchPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · North Augusta, SC · Member since 2017 · 254 posts · 233 votes
    9y

    Hey Kevin - I'm super new, but have been trying to gain as much knowledge as possible. I attended a local Meetup last week (which was amazing - I highly suggest it if there are any in your area) and @Jered Sturm 

    @Jered Sturm talked about paying back a loan over time. The idea was that $1 is worth less as time goes on. Because inflation happens, a $1 buys less than it did.  I always hear about how my Pops could go to a burger joint and eat for (under) a $1 way back in the day.  However, now $1 will only buy a soft drink and an equivalent meal would be around $7.  

    The same way a $1 has less food purchasing power now is exactly why paying back over time is a great idea.  So, if you borrow $100,000 now and your P and I payment is $500 (the cost of say, 72 fast food meals), as you're paying the money back, the value of the dollar decreases. So, in 10 years, that $500 payment may only be the equivalent of 51 fast food meals. Just as the idea holds true for the monthly payment, it holds true for the loan amount - as you're paying it back, you're paying it back with many less valuable dollars.  I'm guessing Jered can add some insight and perhaps a better explanation :)

    Also, congrats on your first deal! :) 

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