Made 22k on my first flip without any of my own money

Made 22k on my first flip without any of my own money

Tucson, AZ · Member since 2016 · 120 posts · 127 votes

Numbers (rounded to nearest $100)

1350 sf

3 bed, 2 bath

1 Story

No Garage

Listed Price $45,000

Offer/Purchase Price $50500

Original Estimated Renovation Cost $17000

Renovations $20,000

ARV $106,000

Sold $109,500

Closing Costs at Purchase $2800

Closing Costs at Sale $5500 (around here, sellers pay for buyers closing costs)

Holding Costs (Loan Payment) $200 a month for 5 months

Holding Costs (Utilities) $300 a month for 5 months

Holding Costs (Yard Maintenance) $100 a month for 3 months

Real Estate Commission Paid at Sale $6600

Target Profit Margin $20,000

Actual Profit Margin $22,000

Details

The reason why I laid out all those prices is because I read a lot of success stories before I started and often times there was very little information about how much money was spent where and why. I am hoping that even though prices will vary greatly from area to area, this might help put give some perspective on what goes into flipping a house.

When we (my real estate agent and myself) found this property it was listed by the VA as a foreclosure for $45,000. This property had been on the market for a couple months before I bought it, which is not usual for a property that has these numbers. I believe it was largely ignored because most houses in that area are 3 bed, 1.5 baths (which are not desirable in this area), but this house had been upgraded to 3 bed, 2 baths. Also, if I remember correctly, this house was incorrectly listed as 3 bed, 1.5 baths too. Finally, the pictures of the house did not help either. The pictures provided by the listing agent made the condition of the house look worse than it was. The only reason why we went to look at it was because if you looked at the pictures, it looked like a 2 bath and because it was pretty much the last thing on my list of possible rehabs before looking in another city or town. When we got over there, we discovered that almost everything had been upgraded by the owner (which is usually bad) and they actually did a decent job. New cabinets, new counters, new tile on the walls in the bathrooms and around the showers. The garage was converted and added to the living room/dining room area with a separate laundry room and all done to code. Shoot, it even had crown molding, which you don't typically see for this size of a house and in this area. The only thing we had to do was paint, replace some drywall, lay down some laminate flooring and add new appliances. We also added a privacy fence which really sold this house, especially in this area with the size yard it had.

Anyways, ironically enough, other investors started to look at this house during the same week we did (I am guessing this was their last pick too) and within a couple days, the VA was asking for best and final offer. Maybe if we had looked at this house a month earlier we would have got this house for $45,000 or close to it, but since there was multiple offers and since the numbers worked at $50,500, that is what I offered.

Originally, we had estimated that the renovations would cost $17,000 and the house comped out at $106,000, but we figured we could sell the house for between $109,500 to $14,500. Either way, we went conservative and based our numbers on $106,000. The renovations ended up costing more because we ran into some issues. Floor had to be leveled out and then fixed again later after a hot water line burst under the house. This is also the reason why we didn't sell the house within the first 2 weeks of having it on the market. More on that later. The additional renovations brought the total renovation cost to $20,000. 

For those wondering how I came up with estimations, I started with the 70% rule to quickly rule out (no pun intended) bad investments, but I quickly learned that I had to adjust that number closer to 64% because of the additional closing costs that you have to pay for the seller (normal around here) as well as loan fees and other misc expenses. I eventually just made my own calculator on a spreadsheet and between that and the comps, I can generally tell if a house is worth looking at. Obviously, I had a contractor look at the house to estimate the renovations. I am not quite in a place where I can do that myself yet. And to estimate closing costs, I spoke with several real estate agents and well as looked over a few HUD statements to get a good idea of how much closing costs are. Luckily, this could be simplified by estimating 3% of the purchasing price and 4% of the sales price for closing costs and then of course the real estate commission, which is 6% of the sales price.

Moving on, we almost had the house under contract within the first couple weeks of having it on the market. However, during that time, a hot water line busted and ruined the sub-flooring and the new laminate flooring that we just installed and as you can imagine, the floor had waves running through the living room. Of course, the buyers real estate agent thought it was an issue with the foundation and would not listen to reason, she ignored our calls once we fixed the issue and by then she convinced the buyers to look elsewhere. Fast forward 4 months later (winter) and now we finally sold the house. In total, it took 153 days from the first closing to the last closing to renovate and sell the house. 

Financing:

Originally, I was going to do hard money because I could not find a bank within 2 hours of my location that would fund me. Then I found a small bank that only has a small office in my area. When I say small office, I mean that there was no receptionist, no teller, no vault. Just a guy and a desk. That's it. Rates were 4.5% with 1 point and the loan was interest only for 12 months. 

$17,500 credit line to cover down payment and holding costs.

Horror Story:

Other than the pipe busting and potentially costing us another 4 months of holding costs  and thus preventing me from moving on to another house sooner, there is a story that is much worse . . . 

Other than the crazy idea of having the seller pay for the buyer's closing costs, there is another common practice called early possession, which basically means that the buyer moves into the house while under contract and before closing. Yes, I know this already sounds like a stupid idea . . . However, they were willing to pay $500 to stay there till close, which was in 3 weeks and then $30 a day for each day the closing gets pushed back. In the end, they ended up paying about $800 for ealy possession. They had also offered a $100 pet deposit, which I increased to $300 just in case we did not go to close and I had to replace one of the carpets. What I didn't know was that they had 10 dogs. Yes. 10 dogs . . . And no, they did not utilize the huge back yard with the beautiful fence to house the dogs. Being a relatively logical human, I figured that these people probably only had 1 or 2 pets and that they would actually use the back yard. I was wrong. Anyways, we did not find this out until the contractor had gone back to do some work that the buyers had requested as a part of the offer to purchase, and by then the damage had already been done. There was pee all over the laminate flooring and carpets, what looked like black silt in the bottom of the tubs and the house looked like it was owned by a couple of budding hoarders. Apparently the smell was so bad that the contractor had to leave the house several times just to breathe. To make things worse, this couple was unable to adult and fill out the necessary paper work on time on multiple occasions, pushing back the closing to 8 days. Needless to say, we were a little concerned about whether or not we would actually be able to close on the house and if we did not go to close, I would have probably lost at least $3000-$5000 in additional repairs to make the house look and smell new again. 

You might be asking why we did not kick them out. Like I said, by the time we found out, the damage was already done and we were close to closing. Rather than alienating the buyers and kicking them out, the best we could do was hope to God that they were able to close and then take legal action if necessary if we did not go to close. 

Lessons Learned:

The above tale is not a typical early possession, nor were these normal people in general. So, I will still do early possession in the future, but I will not allow pets and I may even require that underwriting be complete before early possession so that I know for a fact the buyers can close.  

Obviously, I learned a lot about pricing out renovations, closing costs, etc. But the main lesson I learned is not to assume that you cannot do something just because that is what you were told or because you don't make enough money or because you don't have the best credit or (add your reason). Now, don't get me wrong, I am not the type of person who lets someone tell me I can't do something and then not rise up to the challenge. But when I first looked into flipping houses 2 years ago, I asked a friend of mine who was a real estate agent (not the same one I am using today) what I needed to do to start flipping houses. I can't remember exactly what he told me, but it basically boiled down to needing a lot of money and he knew nothing about hard money (neither did I), construction loans or private lenders. Basically, I got my information from the wrong source and instead of digging in and doing some more research, I waited another 2 years just to find out I could have been doing it all along. Oh and I was not in any better position financially when I bought this house compared to 2 years ago. I had the same income, the same credit score and I looked just as good as I did 2 years ago (JK). The only difference is that I decided to dig in and do some of my own research and eventually stumbled on BP. I started reading everything I could get my eyes on to include all the books I could buy from BP and other sources. Eventually, I was able to find a small bank that was willing to fund me and another bank that was willing to give me a 17k credit line to cover a down payment and closing costs. Now, I have over 40k to put towards my next two houses between my credit line (which was increased to 20k) and my profits from this house.

Pictures:

There are a lot of pictures, so I have uploaded them to my google drive.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B4gWighCv2...

PS: How do I edit the title to fix a typo?

13Reply
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Most Popular Reply

Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
9y
Nice work. Don't forget uncle sams taxes.
See this reply in the discussion

26 Replies

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  • Tony WooldridgePro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Walla Walla, WA · Member since 2016 · 480 posts · 346 votes
    9y

    @Dean I. great discriptive write up of your first flip! I too am new and have similar goals as the ones you have stated on your profile page. I am assuming with your painting and construction back ground you did all the work yourself (?) however, you kept mentioning we are you working with a partner (contractor)? So you were able to have one bank finance the entire project and another to lend you the down payment? If so great job very creative! How did that work? Was the $20,000 rehab part of the financing as well? Sorry for all the questions just trying to fill in the gaps. Well, congrats and thanks so much for sharing your first flip story, I hope to do the same soon! Best of luck to you and your future REI ventures! Thanks again.

  • James MasottiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Washington Township, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 976 votes
    9y

    @Dean I. - Congrats on the successful project and thank you very much for taking the time to detail out all of your experiences. This is a fantastic contribution for many investors to learn from. Wishing you continued success sir!

  • CA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Dean I.

    thanks for sharing... such a great story.. House looks a million dollars after the rehab... Good job..

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    don't tell anyone about the bank other wise there will be a run on the bank LOL that's fantastic bank terms for unsecured LOC... nice one. but 17k does not include the purchase price how did you finance that or did I miss it I scanned through you post pretty quick

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    Nice work. Don't forget uncle sams taxes.
  • Tucson, AZ · Member since 2016 · 120 posts · 127 votes
    9y

    @Tony Wooldridge

    Hey Tony, I'm sorry I should have been more detailed. That actually sounds funny after seeing how much I just wrote . . . :D

    Anyways I don't do any of the work myself. I contract everything out. Even if I wanted to do some of the work myself, I don't have the time with running my other business. 

    Also, no partners. 

    As for the loan, the loan is 80% of the total purchase price and cost of renovations.

    @Jay Hinrichs

    I intentionally left some details out ;)

    The $17k was a part of the loan. The loan covers 80% of the total purchase price and renovations. 

    @Max Tanenbaum

    Oh, I haven't forgotten. Towards the middle of the year after a couple more flips I will put all that aside. For now, I need to reinvest what I have. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Dean I.  OK then were did the 20% come from .. you said no money out of your pocket did you have another private lender ?? that type of thing?

  • Braintree, MA · Member since 2016 · 4 posts · 2 votes
    9y
    @Dean Ingram Great job Dean. I need to get into my first buy and hold as soon as possible. I plan on investing in a multi family and intend on applying a similar strategy. I enjoyed hearing about your success on your first flip. Keep it up!
  • Tucson, AZ · Member since 2016 · 120 posts · 127 votes
    9y

    @Jay Hinrichs

     The 20% down payment and holding costs were covered by the 17k credit line.

  • Rental Property Investor · Encino, CA · Member since 2016 · 324 posts · 178 votes
    9y

    @Dean I. Great post! I like how you broke down the numbers and explanation of how you found the property.

  • Tucson, AZ · Member since 2016 · 120 posts · 127 votes
    9y

    Hey @Jay Hinrichs the tag feature did not work on the last post, but the 20% down payment and holding costs were covered by the 17k credit line I acquired from the other bank.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Dean I. Ok got it you got the unsecured LOC for down and carrying and you got an acquisition loan from another lender... I suspect you have great income and credit..

    good job keep it up

  • Investor / Vendor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 949 votes
    9y

    Hey thanks @Dean I. for sharing such a detailed success story with the numbers. Also great lesson with the horror story part, love the full disclosure. I'm glad it worked out and you made the right decision not alienating the buyers but wow, now I know that it can indeed be even riskier than I originally thought to let buyers move in early and to ask about the number of pets!!! 

    Did you use a calculator to calculate your profit? I'm calculating $23,500 based on your costs, was there a missing cost not listed?

  • Investor · Forsyth, GA · Member since 2016 · 19 posts · 7 votes
    9y

    great post! thanks!

  • Tucson, AZ · Member since 2016 · 120 posts · 127 votes
    9y

    @Jay Hinrichs

    I do have a good income and great credit. I do admit, it would have been much harder to secure the line of credit without the income to support it. That said, if you have good credit and you don't mind doing the leg work, I would think you could go to multiple banks and get a few small lines of credit to get started. The only problem of course is that unless you already have an LLC with it's own credit history, you would have to get the lines of credit in your personal name. From an accounting perspective, it shouldn't matter so long as you use the lines of credit strictly for business. From a legal perspective, I don't know if there is a possibility of piercing the corporate veal. I suppose you could do owner deposits from the lines of credit to a business account in order to further separate the money, which is basically what I did, but I can't say for sure if that will legally protect you if there was a lawsuit. In either case, since the LLC I created for this flipping business was brand new, I didn't have a credit history for the LLC, so I had to put the line of credit in my personal name and then transfer the funds to a business account. After a year or two of doing this, I should be able to secure a line of credit in the name of the LLC. I know you weren't asking for all that, but maybe that will help someone.

    Oh and one other side note. At least around here, most banks don't want to fund house flipping in any way, so don't tell them that you are getting the line of credit for that reason. Luckily for me, the bank where I secured the line of credit actually offered it to me because they could not fund my flips, but they were hungry for loans.

    @Ray Lai

    I used the bigger pockets advanced calculator. I rounded a few numbers for the sake of the post and added the amount I got from the early possession, which brings me to $22,100. Maybe you forgot to multiply the monthly expenses?

  • Investor / Vendor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 949 votes
    9y

    @Dean I.

    Gotcha, I didn't read carefully and thought they were totals, bingo :) Thanks!

  • Real Estate Agent · Vail, CO · Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 6 votes
    9y

    Congrats on your success! The before and after pictures of the house are great, it's incredible what good quality pictures can do for a property. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Bradenton, FL · Member since 2017 · 544 posts · 363 votes
    9y

    Thanks for the inspiration @Dean I.. I learned a lot, never heard of early possession.  Looking forward to hearing about your next flips.

  • Lake Worth, FL · Member since 2017 · 23 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    Thanks for this post Dean! This was very inspiring, and very detailed. Your creative idea to fund this project is something I'm thinking to use to start investing. 

  • Homestead, FL · Member since 2015 · 36 posts · 8 votes
    9y
    You've just motivated me to keep going! Guess I need to better my credit score for these types of situations ... Thanks again!
  • Real Estate Agent · PA · Member since 2017 · 63 posts · 28 votes
    9y

    Thanks @Dean I., may I ask how you went about your first situations with the contractors?  Did you know them prior or did you go to many different companies and get quotes?  Part of me wonders why general contractors aren't owning the market on real estate investing, since they do most of the "work".  I look forward to your response!

  • Tucson, AZ · Member since 2016 · 120 posts · 127 votes
    9y

    I did know the GC (actually since I was a kid) so I definitely lucked out there. 

    As for GCs not doing more with investors, I think it has to do with the pricing and with the investor. As my GC explained it to me, he is basically giving me wholesale pricing because he knows he will continue to get my business and because he knows that after doing a few flips, he will know exactly what I want and at what quality, which significantly increases his efficiency and profitability. That said, many GCs don't want to work for so little money (compared to working for the typical home owner) and many investors burn out their GCs by trying to get them to cut corners and do things cheaper, just so the investor can make more money. I get both sides, but I also think that the investor needs to respect the contractor and realize that they have to make a profit too. This is one of the reasons why I don't try and make the numbers work. I ask for a fair amount on the renovations and if the numbers work, great. If they don't, I move on.

    That being said, I still think you should negotiate with GCs for better pricing with the promise of future business, but you have to also respect the GC and realize that he probably also has a family to feed too.

    Oh, and this is coming from a former contractor . . . Not a GC, but a contractor none the less.

  • Investor · Barnegat, NJ · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 0 votes
    9y
    This is a great success story. I am thinking of diving in the same way. Can you share the bank you used?
  • Rental Property Investor · Allentown, PA · Member since 2016 · 279 posts · 105 votes
    9y

    Congrats @Dean I..  Great flip even with the few nightmares you experienced.  Looking forward to you sharing your upcoming projects!!

  • Real Estate Investor · Palm Beach County, FL · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Dean I. Congrats on a successful first flip and thanks for the detailed analysis it really helps us new guys out that are still in the learning phase. One thing you said was that you had to get the financing in your personal name and not under an LLC. Was this just because it was a conventional loan? To my understanding if you did a commercial loan you can do it through the LLC without your personal credit being involved or even mattering. I also have read that commercial loans seem to close quicker and are an easier process overall. Curious if you explored using a commercial loan at all through an LLC (to my knowledge the LLC doesn't have to have previous credit history) or if you simply went the conventional route? Thanks!

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