A Tale of 2 Four-Plexes

A Tale of 2 Four-Plexes

Investor · Richland, WA · Member since 2014 · 19 posts · 3 votes

I'm interested in 2 Four-Plexes but after running all the numbers for rental income (all units are at fair market value) and deducting all expenses (incl. Utilities, maint., cap repl., ins., vacancy, etc) due to my meager down payment I'll only cash flow about $365 per month total for all 8 units. The seller is offering owner financing at 8% 30 amortization with a refinance expected in 5 years. I'm planning to keep 10,000 in cash reserves.

I plan to hire an inspector, but overall the units look in great shape with no deferred maint that I can tell. Nevertheless, I'm being conservative with my planned expenses.

Budgeting 8% vacancy, 8% maint, 10% capital replacement costs (roof's in good shape but about 15 years old, hvac systems are pretty old as well), and while the 4-plexes will pay for themselves and accumulate equity, the low cash flow has me concerned. Unless the properties achieve unheard of increases in appreciation, I'll be one catastrophe away from not being able to save up enough down payment and the required cash reserves to refinance within the next 5 years.

The seller has had these properties on the market off and on for about 2 years and state they want to liquidate their rentals in preparation for retirement. 

In casual conversation in order to encourage me, they told me they had minimum cash for a down payment when they purchased 11 years ago but their good credit and a great mort broker still got them the loan. I pulled their purchase amounts from the county records, the current interest rates at the time of their purchase and calculated a ball park figure of what their mortgage payment could be. Needless to say, significantly lower than what my payment will be.

I'm considering offering to do a subject to purchase agreement to allow more cash flow and have a greater chance to put together the cash I'll need in 5 years. Structure it where I'll pay in full their CURRENT asking price in 5 years, minus a $15,000 down payment given upon signing the agreement, and minus however much the principal drops in the next five years. I'll provide semi annual reports with bank statements showing my progress accumulating the refinance monies and also detailing what work is being done to the property and/or ongoing maintenance/upkeep. Maybe couple it with a semi annual walkthrough?

In exchange, not only will they get their asking price but they will also no longer be responsible for the upkeep and property management of their buildings. Once the refinance is done with a 20% down payment and depending on current interest rates in five years, the cash flow should experience a measurable increase.

I'm aware there's a risk of the DOS clause being called, the unknown factor that their mortgage payment might be higher than I've figured if they've done any refinancing since purchasing the property and that interest rates are at times volatile so in 5 years my cash flow may not increase at all. That being said, what do you all think?

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  • Flipper/Rehabber · Garner, NC · Member since 2011 · 43 posts · 15 votes
    12y

    I like the sub-to idea. I had a few four-plexus back in the late 2000's and they had great cashflow on paper but deteriorated rapidly when the unemployment rate rose. Many unexpected expenses can wipe out $300+ a month in cashflow. I like to use land trust to get around the DOS clause.

    I would recommend doing thorough negotiations with the seller.  I think a $150 per month positive cashflow per unit per month is a reasonable rate of return to justify your time, effort and risk.

    Will your monthly payment to the seller include PITI or just PI?

  • Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 549 posts · 310 votes
    12y

    @Michael Otranto 

    Would you mind going into the "land trust to get around the DOS clause" real quick? Not too familiar with that, but would be a lot more comfortable with Sub-2 transactions if the DOS clause went away...

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Garner, NC · Member since 2011 · 43 posts · 15 votes
    12y

    I attached a link to a great resource that goes over the basics in a very simple format.  I would research legal zoom and maybe bizfillings.com to see if you can get them to draft a land trust for you for your particular state. 

    Reach out to your local network to see if any local investors are using them in your area.

    I have a "sub-to" package that I use that was prepared for me by a guy I partnered with a "sub-to" deal last year.  You might as well start doing research on the subject now so you are ready to pull the trigger when a sub-to deal comes your way.

    http://www.legalwiz.com/landtrusts/

    I hope this helps

  • Investor · Richland, WA · Member since 2014 · 19 posts · 3 votes
    12y

    @Michael Otranto 

    RE: PITI/PI

    Well, that brings up a good question. If structured as a subject-to where I'm replacing them as the owner, how are the end of year taxes going to be handled regarding property tax-related deductions? As it is, the sellers are already going to take some convincing to follow through on the subject-to deal.

    I've heard the term "Master Lease" thrown about in the forums. Maybe I should propose to do a Lease contract for the two properties from them for whatever their PITI is plus a certain premium, with the provision that I can sub-lease the units at my discretion and am responsible for any and all maintenance and repairs, with a secondary Option contract stating that upon satisfactory completion of the 60-month Lease contract I will have the option to purchase at the pre-determined price.

    I'm very new to all this, Michael, what do you think? Is this doable and is it legal? Any insurance ramifications on their end considering I'm planning to sub-lease? This might be enough of a gray area to ease their fears of the DOS being called.

    I WILL make it clear, though, that this does not eliminate any and all risk regarding DOS. Depending on the bank and depending on if interest rates rise and they're likely to make more money, they might call it due anyway. And to clarify, I do plan to use an attorney to structure the formal lettering of the agreement. Opinions? Concerns?

    ps: thanks for the link. I'll be checking it out later today. I second @Clay Manship 

    How does the land trust sale agreement help nullify the DOS clause?

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Garner, NC · Member since 2011 · 43 posts · 15 votes
    12y

    If you research the "Garmin St. Germain Act" it goes over how that legislation allowed banks to charge variable interest rates and allow property owner to put their properties in trusts for estate planning purposes. I have yet to hear of a bank exercising the DOS. Usually a seller is highly motivated when doing sub-to deals. They are burned out landlords who are about ready to let properties go into foreclosure. You can propose it and he can say no if he wants to.

    If you structure this as a lease the owner of the property will still be on the hook for repairs.  What I do with my LO's is insert a clause where I'll accept responsibility for the first $250 in repairs, but according to North Carolina law the owner is still responsible for maintaining a habitable residence.  So, roof leaks or HVAC would still be on the owner.  This is a good exercise in deal structuring but don't spend too much time with it if the owner will not consider any of these options.  I think you said he offered to finance at 8% with a 5 year call?  If that's the case he doesn't sound very motivated.  It sounds like he's playing hard ball.  This is common in low income housing.  These guys sell on "draconian" terms and wind up taking the property back in a couple of years, essentially setting up a series of buyers to fail.  A lot of times one landlord will sell the same property on terms multiple times over a few decades and makes a lot of money doing it.  Always be willing to walk away from any deal.

    As far as taxes and insurance it depends on whether or not his mortgage payment covers the T & I in the monthly payment.  Get that info from the seller.

    "Master Lease", the way I have heard it explained by David Tilney is that you lease the property from him from him and take a % of the money you collect.  No money no payment.  He pays all repairs.  This would have to be a highly motivated seller.

    I think overall that multi family properties that are around the lower end require some experience to manage profitably.  Single family homes in middle income have a larger margin of error.  Speaking of which, do you have a screening system in place?  Pulling credit, applications etc?  Do you have a maintenance guy lined up?  What about a trust account for the security deposits?

  • Investor · Richland, WA · Member since 2014 · 19 posts · 3 votes
    12y

    @Michael Otranto 

    You bring up some good points regarding the owner financing terms. The seller is not very motivated at all to negotiate and seemed surprised and worried about the DOS clause when I mentioned it.

    For tenant screening I use Airfactz out of Spokane, WA. They were recommended by my RE broker and they seem to do a good job as far as I can tell. I handle all my own routine low-level maintenance and have working relationships with a local drywaller, a painter, a plumber, an electrician and an HVAC guy in case any big projects arise.

    For the security deposits, I set up a separate savings account at my local credit union and do the "set it and forget it" mentality. After all, that's not my money to play with, it belongs to my tenant. To the best of my knowledge, Washington state does not require you to set up trusts for security deposits, but I'll double check and be sure to follow the letter of the law.

    I think at this point, I'm going to try to convince my wife to move in to the 4plex in order to take out an owner-occupier loan and purchase outright just the one 4plex from the current owner.

    I took out an owner-occupied FHA loan when I bought my duplex four years ago. If I understand current lending standards correctly, I'll need to refinance my current FHA loan into a conventional loan (my LTV should be about 75%) and only after I do that will I be able to get another FHA loan to buy the 4plex, right?

    I think doing that, at a 4.75% (or so) interest rate instead of the owner financed 8%, my cash flow will improve to an acceptable point. And it'll be easier to jump from managing 1 side of a duplex to managing 1 4plex as opposed to (2) 4plexes.

    As a general question, do you know if banks still let you do a loan for 80% and then a 2nd lien home equity loan for the remaining 20% that you're down payment doesn't cover? I'd rather do that and pay off the 2nd loan as quick as possible than to have PMI for the life of the loan. Any input there?

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Garner, NC · Member since 2011 · 43 posts · 15 votes
    12y

    I'm not up to date on current loan standards as I don't go to the bank for financing.  If you're willing to live in one of the units then I guess it's in a decent area.  Good luck, and let me know if you have any questions.

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