BRRRR - Cash flow after refi

BRRRR - Cash flow after refi

Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2019 · 77 posts · 32 votes

Hi. I'm new to investing and BiggerPockets, and have heard a lot of great things about the BRRRR strategy. However, the numbers don't make sense to me.

I'm looking at a SFR property in a Los Angeles suburb. It is 500k (4bd 3ba) and needs a lot of help. With 20% down 30-yr fixed rate loan, the mortgage payment is about 2450/mo, tax and insurance included. The rent would go for about 2400/mo.

If I use 10% (50k) for rehab, let's say it appraises at 600k. I can now rent it out at 3000/mo.

After the appraisal, I do a cash out refi and pull out 75%. Since I put 100k down, in the beginning my loan is for 400k. After it appraises at 600k, my total equity is about 200k. 

75% of 200k = 150k 

So essentially, I pulled out my down payment and rehab costs.

But now my loan becomes 400k (original loan amount) + 150k (cash-out) = 550k. Is my logic right here?

The mortgage payment on 550k loan is about 3300/mo including taxes and insurance. But comparable properties in the 600k range are renting out at only 2950/mo.

So the cashflow summary is:

Before rehab and cash-out refi:$2400 - $3450 = -$50/mo

After rehab and cash-out refi: $2950 - $3300 = -$350/mo

Am I missing something? I just don't see how the BRRRR strategy makes any sense in terms of cash flow after the cash-out refi.

I get that you can raise rents, but the problem is, after the cash-out refi, your mortgage payments spike.

Thank you in advance.

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Lee RipmaPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Prairie Village, KS · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6y

@Pavel Wolfson

You are correct that when you have a higher mortgage your payment is higher. Understand that BRRRR on a SFH in LA at those price to rent ratios likely isn't a cash flow positive situation.

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  • Lee RipmaPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Prairie Village, KS · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Pavel Wolfson

    You are correct that when you have a higher mortgage your payment is higher. Understand that BRRRR on a SFH in LA at those price to rent ratios likely isn't a cash flow positive situation.

  • Whitney HuttenPro Member
    Investor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Paul Wolfson Your numbers look correct. Not every market is a good deal for cashflow even if you could BRRRR the property. There are two ways to make this deal "possibly" work.

    1. Get it at a much lower price

    2. Don't do as extensive of a rehab (which puts in you a predicament with ARV)

    3. Leave more of your money in the deal to get it to cashflow (which is not ideal)

    Or you can research to find market that does cashflow way better!

  • Jaron WallingPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    Numbers are spot on and this proves why running the number is so important! Your market is not great for the BRRRR investment strategy. You would have to change a lot of aspects on the deal to pull it off.

  • Andrew SyriosPro Member
    Moderator
    Residential Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    6y

    BRRRR deals aren't going to bring in a ton of cash flow. That's not how you get wealthy with it. The wealth is built with equity. By first building in that 25% and then paying principal down each month while the property appreciates. The cash flow makes it so you can pay your expenses and gives you a little bit extra as well.

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2019 · 77 posts · 32 votes
    6y

    @Lee Ripma thank you for your insight. If the BRRRR strategy isn't going to work in the Los Angeles market, do you have any suggestions/ideas on other cash flow strategies that can work in the Los Angeles market?

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2019 · 77 posts · 32 votes
    6y

    Thank you all for your responses. Seems like there's a consensus that the Los Angeles market is not ideal. What are the signs of a market that is ideal for BRRRR?

  • Lee RipmaPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Prairie Village, KS · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Pavel Wolfson

    Well I'd say that THIS deal didn't work to do BRRRR and have positive cash flow. I'd keep learning, understand what strategies work in this market at this time, understand what makes a deal and how you find/make one. The goal of a real estate investor is to run numbers and figure out a way to make money in RE. This is what makes real estate fun and challenging. Your ROI in LA is not from cash flow. Just keep learning. Its just not as simple as making one internet post and buying the first deal you analyze.

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