Guru, Book, & Course Reviews
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback
Updated almost 4 years ago, 02/20/2021
Mentorship Program Opinion
Hey everyone,
I have been debating switching my primary real estate focus to multi-family and have been researching a lot of different mentorship programs in hopes to get right in working with folks who are experienced in the the multi-family area. There is generally a large cost associated with these programs, so before making a decision to move forward i was hoping to get opinions on the idea of a paid mentorship program from anyone who has used them. I will list The programs in order of preference that I have the most interest in right now:
Michael Blank
The Real Estate Guys SMC
Jake and Gino,
Brad Sumrok
Any help/information is much appreciated.
Justin
I have not used a mentorship program personally, but they are generally a gigantic waste of time, there is no secret of how to invest in real estate that these people would be able to teach you.
My MF journey, right or wrong, started in 2010 with Brad Sumrok. Let me be clear, not the 5 units some speak of, but the 60+ units, usually 100+ apartments. All of the deals I've seen are via a Private Placement Memorandum (PPM) most using the SEC Reg D 506(b) exception, which requires a Sponsor knows Investor before the deal.
[There is also the (C) exception; advertising is allowed but no sophisticated investors are allowed.]
To create a MF syndication, one needs a resume to impress the broker and seller, funds to bribe the seller, pay the SECattorney and the contractors for due diligence, and plenty of qualified contacts with money to invest. In a seller's market, Sponsors have to put down some serious hard-money (potentially non-refundable) to get a deal started. Less so in a Buyer's market.
To invest in MF via a syndication, one has to be Accredited (rich) or Sophisticated (knowledgeable) as the law protects the poor and stupid, preventing they from investing in PPMs. You can simply say you're sophisticated, but it is so much better to learn and know what you're doing. One has to have contact with one or more of the Syndication Sponsors. And you need the money to invest; these are non-liquid 3 to 5 year deals, do not invest your emergency fund! Typical minimums I've seen are $50K.
My knowledge of other Mentoring programs is limited, but I think they are occasionally TRAINING (Buy my books & tapes at the back of the room), occasionally PROSPECTING (I have a deal; come invest with me), and occasionally more.
I was lucky enough to find the "more" with Brad. Not unlike others, he has a introductory/recruiting event, his R2R (Rat-race to Retirement, which happen 3 times a year). The R2Rs are two day events. They give a great overview of the MF process, allowing the neophyte to decide if this is where he wants to be. And they include a bus-trip visit to 3 or 4 properties that students own to see what the investment looks like.
There are two levels of membership: Personal Student and Foundations Student. The Personal includes "hand-holding" & personal coaching; these are the folks that are potential Sponsors. Both levels include on-line training about the MF acquisition process, multiple all-day Networking Events each year; these events consist of bus trips to visit 5 or 6 properties that are for sale followed by a post network meeting and usually a dinner. Most of the activities are in DFW, but DFW is the MF hotbed! The bus trips are both instructive and facilitate making those necessary contacts (Sponsors with Passives).
As I see it, a coach/mentor brings experience, knowledge, access to contacts, credibility, access to a team, etc. I think it can be done without a mentor, but having a mentor allows one to do it faster and without paying for big mistakes.
The group did 52 deals in 2018 and 58 deals in 2019. Many deals had new Sponsors teamed with seasoned sponsors and it was not hard for Passives to deploy some money in to deals.
One of the most remarkable stats on the group is that over 170 members have increased their wealth by $1M in the past 6 years that Brad has had the Sumrok organization.
NO, I DO NOT WORK FOR HIM! I do volunteer at his events as he has made me rich!
Regards,
Charles LeMaire
Originally posted by @Aaron K.:
I have not used a mentorship program personally, but they are generally a gigantic waste of time, there is no secret of how to invest in real estate that these people would be able to teach you.
There is no secret, but many have found value in being part of a group where they can surround themselves with people who are already doing what they want to do, so they can compress the learning curve, and be taking down a 100+ unit deal in 6-9 months, instead of say, two years (or never). In that sense, joining such a group is the opposite of a waste of time.
If you meant to say waste of money, well, it all depends what one hopes to get out of the group. Someone hoping there is a magic formula will indeed have wasted their money. But others find value in compressing the learning curve and/or making personal connections that get them to their goals faster.
I know that the Sumrok weekend event is a great way to learn about the program without being pressured to join, so I would recommend it. I imagine the others have similar events, but I have not attended. Whatever the OP decides to do, I suggest talking to current students of each program and get their candid feedback.
@Paul B. it is often a waste of both time and money as you can get all of the same exposure for free or at the very least the cost of a dew meals wherever an REIA decides to meet. The fact is that most people who do the mentorship programs don't end up taking down that 100+ unit deal anyway and it is a waste of their time and money and those that do likely would have been able to do so anyway. Talking to students is great, but I'd talk to former students not current ones as they will have the full experience and not be caught up in the excitement of starting something new and not having faced reality yet.
Originally posted by @Aaron K.:
Talking to students is great, but I'd talk to former students not current ones as they will have the full experience and not be caught up in the excitement of starting something new and not having faced reality yet.
Okay, I'd say talk to both (former and current). I would agree that a new student won't have much value to add to the discussion, except why they decided to join (and why that program instead of the other options). And I also agree that asking former students would be valuable. But talk to the veteran students too, and ask why they are still in the program. Why are they still members when they presumably have learned enough to be independent? If everyone has yet to actually do a deal (but are hoping it's right around the corner), then perhaps it's not so great of a program. If students who have done several deals are still around, ask what value they are getting.
I'm not here to sell any program, but I do recommend approaching it with an open mind. If you meet someone who is willing to take you under their wing for no cost, and they are actually someone you should be learning from, great. Keep in mind that most of those people get requests like that every day, so it's tough to get that kind of opportunity.
MY suggestion is:
1) Decide on the goals you would like to achieve by leveraging these mentor-ship programs. And I don't mean in a number of doors, but more in general terms: what you're looking to get out of them.
2) Find (here on BP or outside) several people who went through these programs and ask them about their personal experience.
3) Take #2 with a grain of salt and compare it with #1. If there's a match or two, then go to #4.
4) Talk to the matched program leaders and see whose strategy and personality resonates the most with you.
5) Take action
@Aaron K. you seem to be very against the Mentorship programs. Did you have a bad experience with one? You could buy a really nice car with the cost of most of the programs which does seem a bit crazy huh.
@Paul B. thank you for taking the time to give your opinion. I am hoping a mentorship program would surround me would an experienced support group and as you mentioned accelerate my multi family investment growth.
@Alina Trigub @Charles LeMaire thank you both for your responses. Always means a lot when folks take the timE to give a detailed response. It’s appreciated.
@Justin Frank I've seen friends and clients use them and I just hate seeing people get ripped off.
@Aaron K. I can appreciate that. I most certainly do not want to be ripped off. One thing I think of is the people that are offering these mentorship programs are very high level and reputable (Michael Blank, Joe Fairless, Brad Sumrok, The Real Estate Guys). Do you think these folks would remain so successful and reputable if their programs were a rip off? Just looking at it from a different view.
@Justin Frank the thing is that these folks likely use an LLC to conduct business other than mentorships. Also there are companies who run seminars and just license the names of famous people multiple Sharks from Shark Tank, almost anyone who has a show on HGTV etc. Not to mention the president had a "mentorship class" that cost $30k it hasn't hurt any of their businesses.
@Justin Frank Do not pay anyone for mentorship (In that manner.)
I strongly encourage everyone to pursue more informal mentorship. Work to build a relationship with people you admire and want to learn from in or near your market. It definitely can be time-consuming and slow (as it should be.) You have to find people in your market and do whatever you can to add value to them. This could just be, by being nice and having a great conversation with them as dumb as it sounds. You just have to be confident, and constantly work to build relationships with good people. Always be respectful of their time, make it clear you respect their time, and always offer to compensate them for their time. Which leads to an additional option..
IF you wanted to be able to get a bit more formal mentoring and are willing to pay money I recommend you seek out people you admire reach out however they suggest, e-mail their assistant, them directly, DM them.. be relatively brief, be complimentary, and offer to pay them for a 1 hour phone call. Keep doing this to many people you wish to learn from. Someone will say yes, and a good percentage will not charge you (still compensate them however you can, venmo, mail a gift card to them, their assistant, their office address etc..). Write a brief not thanking them for their time and always request another meeting at a scheduled date and time in the future. If you can get one or a few people, and pay them for their time you not only get the mentorship you desired, but the potential upside is huge as you may build an actual relationship with these people that develops into a friendship.
It's enticing to try and fast-track the process but I believe the high percentage of these programs are not worth what they cost, and they time they take you while conversely the options above are extremely high value options for potentially little time and money. Don't stop learning yourself though, and keep in mind most of these guys offering programs have done sooo many interviews, podcasts, blog posts, to market themselves and their programs and they aren't all expert marketers.. so most of them give away the information they will present at their mentoring events. I see it all the time. Dig into peoples content and you can extract this information as well without the need to overpay for it.
Hope this helps
Best,
Ryan
@Ryan Luby thank you for your response. I will definitely take your opinion into consideration. I completely understand that everything that a mentorship program offers can be obtained without the use of these programs however I am just considering that the use of one of these programs could accelerate my my path to success in a new space. With that being said, they are extremely expensive.
I agree with @Justin Frank on mentorship helping you accelerate your success. You can certainly spend the time to try and figure it out on your own, but that path can also be very expensive and take a lot of time. Trying to take down large multifamily properties typically requires a team - and you can gain access to a lot of resources you need through a mentorship group. It took us being in the wrong group with the wrong mentor to eventually find the RIGHT one that aligned with our values - and the culture of any group is imperative to your success. These types of groups are definitely not cheap - full membership/access to the main "mentor" and the group is typically $30K - $40K for the first year then it drops substantially after that... BUT it's a no-brainer investment when you compare it to the money you can make in your first deal. Our first deal returned us 9X the membership cost... and we plan on doing many more deals this year!
Hi @Account Closed, thank you for your response. It’s great to get an opinion from someone who has been through a program similar to what I was inquiring about. After reading your message I was able to do a little research on your company. You have a fantastic website. It gives a great description of what your business is about and it is very easy to navigate which is so important. It appears you are off to a great start which is very motivating for me to hear. I hope you continue to grow and find success in your business. If you wouldn’t mind I may DM you with some questions I may have as I get started? Thanks again for your response!
@Justin Frank Totally against gurus. I have tons of bad stories on bad stories from one of my mentors who spoke at these guru workshops. I think you should always do due diligence before getting involved with anything or anyone. Ask questions. They should be able to show you everything they have they can help you. Then they should have people that can attest to what they offer and how it helps. Mentorship in real estate has become such a risky place because people don’t want to help. Instead they are focused on financial gain. When real estate is about helping people and changing lives.
Hi @Nathaniel Green,
I’m not sure what you mean by gurus or guru workshops. As I stated in an earlier comment the programs I am speaking of are with pretty reputable people in the real estate investing space (Jake and Gino, Joe Fairless, Russel Gray/Robert Helms, Michael Blank). I am not considering jumping right into a program without someone how has zero credibility. If these programs were a scam do you think these folks would remain so popular and successful on the real estate space? I did ask for an opinion on these programs and I do appreciate everyone’s advice. I guess I just didn’t expect everyone to talk about these programs as scams. Especially with the programs I was inquiring about being led by such credible individuals. maybe I was just hoping to get different answers than I have received so far. Thank you for taking the time to respond
@Justin Frank you’d be surprised how many people just got took down by the FTC and I’m not saying that those guys are no good. Just was giving you advice on how not to be another victim of buying training to be let down. It ruins real estate for those of us that are really tryna help people become investors. For more information on people that got taken down by the FTC google Nudge FTC
@Justin Frank I appreciate the website compliment, thank you! Please reach out- I love talking multifamily and would be happy to help anyway I can. It took us a few mistakes to finally find the right path and I'm always happy to share our experience to help others get to their goals faster. Cheers to all of our success!
Originally posted by @Justin Frank:
Hi @Nathaniel Green,
I’m not sure what you mean by gurus or guru workshops. As I stated in an earlier comment the programs I am speaking of are with pretty reputable people in the real estate investing space (Jake and Gino, Joe Fairless, Russel Gray/Robert Helms, Michael Blank). I am not considering jumping right into a program without someone how has zero credibility. If these programs were a scam do you think these folks would remain so popular and successful on the real estate space? I did ask for an opinion on these programs and I do appreciate everyone’s advice. I guess I just didn’t expect everyone to talk about these programs as scams. Especially with the programs I was inquiring about being led by such credible individuals. maybe I was just hoping to get different answers than I have received so far. Thank you for taking the time to respond
Hello! I'm a little late to this post but I'm curious about what you decided on doing. Did you end up joining? If so, which one on your list did you pick? You can DM me if it makes you comfortable. I'm currently in your position a year ago. I appreciate any advice. Thank you!
Hi @Adrian Fajardo,
I actually ended up taking a bit of a different route. I didn't end up joining the any of the most familiar groups out there. I found Ellis Hammond who started a Christian mastermind group called the Kingdom Capitalist. I still speak with the individuals from Kingdom Capitalists monthly. There are so many great people in the group and I have recently started a fund management company with a few of the individuals from the group. We realized that we had great relationships with so many professional operators in MHPs, Storage and MF. These individuals were finding more deals then they had money, so we decided to partner with these world class operators to raise capital and fund the great projects they were producing. We are at the early stages but the future is promising and bright. I was very close to joining the Think MF group. After all of the research I did, Think MF outshined everyone. Mark Kinney is actually a member of Kingdom Capitalist so I am not too far removed from their group. They are doing a ton of deals. I would highly recommend them if you are interested in joining a mentorship group.
@Justin Frank by the way, I used to live in Lynnwood, WA. It's probably an hour or so North of Tacoma (depending the traffic on I-5).
Thank you for the recommendation Justin. I have not heard of them actually. You're the first one who brought them up. I'll look into them and see if I fit into their program.
I appreciate the help! I wish you luck in you investing journey!
Adrian Fajardo
@Adrian Fajardo, I know exactly where Lynnwood is. Where are you now?
Think multi family is an awesome group. Since this summer They have probably sent out at least 10 different offerings for units they are acquiring. They are moving fast
@Justin Frank nice! I miss Lynnwood and Washington in general. I like being surrounded by trees and the rain is so comforting. I'm in the Army and I'm currently stationed in Texas.
I spoke with @Account Closed yesterday. She's awesome!! I did a lot of research about Think MF as well and I'm very inclined to join. My current job is pretty demanding (with time and energy). It will be a waste to join now because I won't be able to engage with the group as much.
@Adrian Fajardo, @Account Closed was very helpful and great to talk to. She is a perfect example of the type of individuals in the Think MF group. If you ever decide to join, I would head their way. Don't think you can go wrong with them. With that being said, make sure you have time to be active. You aren't paying them to do the work =)