Why does anyone become a "guru" in the first place?

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Why does anyone become a "guru" in the first place?

James Reyes
Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 9 posts · 4 votes

One thing that has always made me generally distrustful of gurus is the question of what motivates anyone to become a guru in the first place. If the methods and techniques taught are are so great, why waste time teaching? Why not just spend the time doing more deals?

Now, it's obvious that selling courses and mentorships at thousands and thousands a pop is very lucrative. At these rates, it's clear that a guru's motivation is not some altruistic pie-in-the-sky desire to pass on wisdom (not to disparage the pursuit of profits, after all this is why we are all here). There is just this seemingly BS-y aspect to guruism in general. Why not sell a course on how to become a guru?

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Joe Bertolino
Investor · El Dorado Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
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Why bother with real estate when you can invest $5k into a weekend "free seminar" and upsell 5-6 out of the 100+ people into a $25,000 mastermind course? That is $100k+ per week with very little risk and upfront investment. I have had a few good RE deals but nothing that returned a 20:1 ROI within a week.
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  • Account Closed
    Homeowner · Signal Hill, CA · Member since 2015 · 521 posts · 70 votes
    11y

    Bragging rights, at least. But more and more, to 'teach' in order to build their own 'capital'!

    Obviously using their own methods ONLY helps soo much =D

    0Reply
  • Johnny L.
    CO · Member since 2014 · 166 posts · 44 votes
    11y
    Sounds like you just answered your own question. They know there are people who are trying to get into investing and know nothing about it. They fill that need with hype and lies. Also as you said it can be lucrative for them. If there's money to be made, it will be made.
    1Reply
  • Hal Thompson
    Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2014 · 284 posts · 123 votes
    11y

    Why take the risk of investing yourself when you can sell hope at no cost?

    Rich Dad, Poor Dad is cited on here as an inspiration to many (and I have to admit I liked the books also), but here is the reality on the author's guru seminars: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rich-dad-poor-dads-ban...

    Also: http://www.cbc.ca/news/rich-dad-seminars-deceptive...

    "For instance, Mousseau told people who are interested in buying real estate to simply start knocking on doors and asking homeowners if they want to sell.

    Aaron, who's handled thousands of real estate files, said some of Mousseau's claims were just plain unusual, including his advice that if you buy 10 condos, a developer will give you two for free.

    "They’re not going to give you two for free," Aaron said. "I’ve never seen that happen."

    This is the kind of quality advice you can expect from gurus. If they actually had techniques that worked, they'd be doing it themselves instead of selling seminars.

    1Reply
  • Joseph Picarella
    Residential Real Estate Agent · Fontana, CA · Member since 2015 · 16 posts · 3 votes
    11y

    @James Reyes, 

    I think the reasons vary from guru to guru, but my guess would be that for most, the reason they get into the business of teaching is because it is very difficult to make consistent profits as a real estate speculator. The volatility of the market combined with the astronomical costs of marketing that it takes to create leads leaves many people bankrupt and forces even the most successful of those in this field to find easier ways to make money in order to supplement, and in some cases replace, their sporadic income that is pretty standard among wholesalers and creative investment specialists. 

    0Reply
  • Fred Ramos
    Real Estate Investor · Corinth, TX · Member since 2008 · 72 posts · 11 votes
    11y

    @James Reyes Have you ever noticed that Guru's are usually advertised during the wee morning hours. Do you know who watches TV at the wee morning hours?

    Mostly people who can't sleep because they are financially overwhelmed and a therefore desperate to try anything to right their situation.

    It's somewhat entertaining to me as to how these guru's have the "secrets" to real estate investing. just send them the money and the "secret" is revealed. To me, the secret is that there is no secret (I should have asked for money for that revelation). Actually, you are at the right place (Bigger Pockets) to uncover the truths to all the late night secrets. 

    We've been investing for almost 10 years now and have found no better place to gather information than right here at this site (Not affiliated!). The biggest and most revealing thing about this site is that it's absolutely free, you can learn at your own pace and the community is so welcoming (and forgiving) that you can ask any question you might have and someone will have an answer for you. 

    I'm by no means a know all and certainly invest in topic focused books but cannot bring myself to believe in self proclaimed guru's. What for? I can communicate with 1000's of non professed gurus right here :)  FOR FREE!!

    Like I always say, If it's for free, it's for me :)

    1Reply
  • Patrick Desjardins
    Real Estate Investor · Amherst, VA · Member since 2015 · 386 posts · 400 votes
    11y

    I disagree with some of the assumptions above.

    Here's my take on gurus: most of them were / are successful to a certain degree but just like most of us they need to secure deals and financing.

    Being in front of large crowds is incredible for their brand. Since 99% of attendees will never take action, it creates an army of potential investors and bird dogs. Some like Dave Lindahl flat out tell people to come ask for help when they stumble upon a deal.

    Obviously the money with low overhead must be great too. And there are undoubtedly scammers which we won't name. But I think many of them didn't start teaching with a "let's skin some newbies" mentality.

    I've personally never paid for education except for a mentoring program. I always thought those high paid courses were BS but recently I've met several people who have followed courses, taken action and are growing much faster than average.

    2Reply
  • Richard Dunlop
    Investor · Detroit, MI · Member since 2014 · 755 posts · 462 votes
    11y

    Interesting note I am not familiar with any of the current gurus but 30 years ago there was a man and wife team that were gurus in about 6 different areas at once. Now I believe retired from public life. 

    Mike and Irene M 

    Government grants

    Real estate investing

    Auctions of surplus machines

    Tax lien investing

    Each of which portrayed their vast wealth as a example of their success in whatever their pitch was at the particular seminar.

    0Reply
  • John Thedford
    Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    11y

    MONEY!

    1Reply
  • Joe Bertolino
    Investor · El Dorado Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y
    Why bother with real estate when you can invest $5k into a weekend "free seminar" and upsell 5-6 out of the 100+ people into a $25,000 mastermind course? That is $100k+ per week with very little risk and upfront investment. I have had a few good RE deals but nothing that returned a 20:1 ROI within a week.
    2Reply
  • Karl Krentzel
    Real Estate Broker · Tucson, AZ · Member since 2012 · 410 posts · 337 votes
    11y

    Water, water, everywhere...

    When it comes to "Guru's" I think there are two kinds.  

    They aren't all the same.

    Some "Guru's" teach millions of Agents how to Sell.  That would be Mike Ferry.  Sales skills for Real Estate agents.

    Others, who shall remain nameless, teach Investors and Realtors® marketing skills and how to write better letters, etc. 

    The problem with "Guru's" is not knowing WHY they become a guru.  

    The better question is HOW.

    Not All Water Is The Same...

    Just like the "Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner",  not all "water" is fit to drink.  Some "Guru's" develop followings based on fear tactics, motivational speaking ability, and raw charisma. 

    Others have been "Given" Guru Status by others.  The true "Guru" does not call himself or herself one.  Rather, they point to the students that they teach.

    The true "Guru" knows that he had the easy part.  It was the Student who had to take the tough part of taking action!

    I have been called a "Guru" for the sales skills that I teach.  I do not begrudge it. 

    I am as successful as I need to be at this point in my life.  I've had the trips, the cars, the houses, the women.  Now, I want the peace.

    19 years ago, I made a promise that if I EVER got in a position where I could help someone not have to go through what I had to do, then I would do it. 

    Fast forward... now we have amazing technologies that I never could have imagined back then.  Things like podcasts, webinars, email courses, ebooks, and YouTube have been game changers for newer Agents who Invest as well as the newer Investor.

    I do what I do out of a promise to myself to #PayItForward.  

    My "Guru" status is a label that others have placed on me... with love.

    Have a Powerful Sales Day!! 

    1Reply
  • Clifton Kaderli
    Residential Real Estate Broker · Winchester, VA · Member since 2014 · 136 posts · 34 votes
    11y

    I'll comment because I have experience both sides of the microphone.  I have bought training and I have sold training.  

    My main objective to selling training was to build a business network.  If my network listed to the training, then I would have a well-informed business network.  

    When we went to REIAs to speak and hawk our program, we had skills in what we were teaching.  There is a fine art in selling education.  I became somewhat tainted with the tactics.  I would even mock typical tactics in my "close".  

    I have shifted my business objective slightly.  I am out to educate anyone who will listen and has the capability to act.  The more action, and ability, the more deal making will present itself to everyone.  This is much of what I am experiencing on BP.  That is one of the reasons I am a huge fan of the community. 

    Here's to

    1. Great education through peers and colleagues, and

    2. More/better deal making and investing within those relationships. 

    1Reply
  • Wendell De Guzman
    Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    Someone once said that GURU stands for General Understanding but Really Useless :-)

    So beware of the gurus out there.

    I know some real estate gurus who admitted they make more money in being a guru than in actually doing real estate deals. That's the reason why. Money.

    I also teach people - but mainly people who want to become part of my real estate team. We make money together ON real estate deals. Making money TOGETHER makes more sense to me. It's truly win-win.

    When you have gurus persuading newbies to pony up $41,000 for a mentoring program - there's no way that can become win-win. It's win for the guru but loss for the newbie. The newbie could have gotten the information at a much, much cheaper price but the newbie bought in because of the hype.

    Now...having said that...when I started there was no Biggerpockets and I had to pay the gurus so I can learn. Some are better than others - and there are some who teach bad information. So beware. 

    Let's all thank Biggerpockets - @Joshua D., @Brandon Turner

     for our wonderful real estate community!

    2Reply
  • Joe Cummings
    Philly Burbs, PA · Member since 2015 · 338 posts · 133 votes
    11y

    Short answer "Narcissistic Supply"

    Narcissistic supply is a concept introduced into psychoanalytic theory by Otto Fenichel in 1938, to describe a type of admiration, interpersonal support or sustenance drawn by an individual from his or her environment and essential to their self-esteem.[1]

    The term is typically used in a negative sense, describing a pathological or excessive need for attention or admiration from codependents, or such a need in the orally fixated, that does not take into account the feelings, opinions or preferences of other people.

    Keep in mind, narcissists need lots of money to keep up their facade. Guess where that comes from?

    0Reply
  • Adrienne G.
    Specialist · Clermont, FL · Member since 2015 · 91 posts · 35 votes
    11y

    @Karl Krentzel & @Wendell De Guzman how I wish one or both of you guys were located near me. I need mentors like you in my world.

    0Reply
  • Joshua D.Pro Member
    BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @James Reyes:

    Why not sell a course on how to become a guru?

     There are gurus that do that. I've seen it.

    Podcast Guest on Show #100
    0Reply
  • Bill Gulley
    Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    11y

    Interesting posts.

    I haven't taken any guru courses or purchased that kind of material, but what I have noticed is that most of these gurus are not real estate types by that I mean they don't really know real estate, they are marketing folks who selected real estate as a product line.

    "Marketing" my definition....."The art of deception". Ever notice the camera angles on car commercials? The cars never look as sexy in person.

    I recall the couple mentioned above, same stuff, get rich schemes in various ploys.

    I agree, money is the root of their evilness, the greed is apparent but consider that it's not them that creates the market, it's also about the greed and laziness or lack of awareness of those they cater too. The average tyro wants quick, easy money, they want a profession right now without effort or taking time to learn.  These two worlds meet, the "teacher" doesn't prepare to teach fundamentals or the principles of real estate, they dig enough to find out how certain functions paly, get creative with half baked ideas, deceive the student and sell a simple product. Seems they too are too lazy to learn, want something quick and easy to produce creating their income stream. The two may be alike, two peas in a pod.

    BTW, there is a guru teaching how to become a guru.

    The mentoring angle to build a group of birddogs is an old ploy. Teach enough to direct them into action but not enough that they can succeed without coming back to seal the deal. Realtors play this all the time.

    No one is just "paying it back" unless they are doing something that is totally free, can't claim to be paying it back with a profit motive, that's not paying anything back. Might be working for less, but unless it's freely given it's nothing to hang your hat on.

      Narcissistic personalities, can't argue with that, you'll find that in most successful people, leaders and politicians too. Some may think  of it as self esteem or confidence, psychology of salesmanship demands it, can't be a real introvert and convince others of something.

    So, what motivates the guru? Money, notoriety, fantasy of self worth. What motivates a person who is actually qualified by education and experience to teach? Satisfaction, pride, worthy accomplishments, contribution to the community, assisting others, changing lives and achieving goals. Teachers have to eat too, but the pay is more through gratification than money. :)          

    1Reply
  • Joe Cummings
    Philly Burbs, PA · Member since 2015 · 338 posts · 133 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Bill Gulley:

      Narcissistic personalities, can't argue with that, you'll find that in most successful people, leaders and politicians too. Some may think  of it as self esteem or confidence, psychology of salesmanship demands it, can't be a real introvert and convince others of something.

    You know the fun part of Guru/Narcissists?

    They will trip over their shoelaces running to play "Bend over Betty" for anyone with a fancier hat.

    Look at how Cadillac gets narcissists to part with their money.

    In reality, the narcissist is a defect. And being a defect makes them easy prey.

    0Reply
  • Bill Gulley
    Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    11y

    How true it is.... playing to the ego to sell luxury items is the best and oldest approach.  :)

    0Reply
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