Which investments guru do I choose?

Question

Well, I have elminated TCS Foreclosures after no good things were said.  Am looking for one package to get started.   Must include Quick marketing plan, Short Sales program and most of all Investor network to cash them out quickly.  Help!   Ready TOday.

Dennis Treacy · Answer

Take from a former sucker!
          
          All, yes, All! of the guru's are scam artists. 
          They are all selling sand at the beach. 
          
          Listen up folks, all of these new secret ideas are as old as the hills. Don't believe me? Go to Ebay and search for Albert  Lowery he is the ground zero of guru's his $3900 course can be had for less that $100. 
          He is like a virus ( in a good way), all of these other guru's grew from him. 
          
          What you are seeing with these guru's is marketing, they sell you what they have done. They steer you with many different web sites to their wholesale deals, their friendly mortgage guy, and their web hosting service, etc. 
          
          There is absolutely nothing wrong with what they are doing, yes some of their students make big money, 99% do not. They are in the marketing business and making more money then the real estate business.
          
          You will not become a real estate millionaire overnight, unless you are very lucky, yes lucky. 
          
          When these guys are truthful, they tell you they started out with single families, then duplexes, next larger and larger until they had confidence in what they were doing. 
          At that stage they had cash flow, and with cash flow things roll a lot faster and easier. 
          
          Maybe I am wrong here, but this how I am doing it. It is also the way every successful non-guru I have ever met has done it. 
          
          Just a quick example, I was curious about a local guy who seems to have come out of nowhere, but is now everywhere, on the media, Facebook, etc.
           I went to his FREE real estate training, no training but lots of selling and name dropping, Kiosake, Goins, etc. 
          During his presentation with lots of numbers that seemed quite inflated for today's market, one of his property examples looked very familiar. I asked him if it was in a certain neighborhood  of Philly. Why yes, it was! 
          I just happen to own most of my properties in the same area, I know that market very well. There is no way in this market they would appraise where he stated this one did.
           I later checked his numbers against the city records, sorry but his numbers did not match theirs, and he is a couple of months behind on the taxes for that cash cow. 
          
          There is no easy way to learn this business, you have to learn it or you will not be successful. That leaves all the systems as worthless in my opinion. 
          
          I will give you all some advice, there are some folks on this site, who out of their  generous nature are willing to post what they know on this site with no cost to you, all you have to do is listen and learn. 
          
          I wish I had found this site at it's inception. There is treasure here, don't waste yours on pie in the sky.

Jason Hanson · Answer

The quickest way to success is to find someone who is where you want to be, and have them show you the way.

(In the interest of full disclosure, I am a coach, not a guru)
Just like everyone else, I got screwed early on and lost a lot of money to a con artist. However, I didn't give up and eventually found several mentors who showed me the business.

I think it is crazy if someone doesn't find a mentor, because everyone I know who is a millionaire, has had a mentor to teach them the way.

I would go to your local REIA's and interview several people and find someone you trust. Also, make sure they are still closing deals and not just some salesman who is trying to rip you off.

The best test I know is to ask them for the addresses of 3 of their properties and if they hesitate with the information, then they run the other way.

Paul McCormack · Answer

Outstanding post.

I have often talked to investors at my reia that say they are experienced, yet they really have trouble explain the very basics of REI and how they make money. There are so many gurus, voodoos and youdoos out there that a new investor can be completely overwhelmed. Thank you for reminding the newbies of the basics - do what feels right, and hopefully profits will follow.

Alex W · Answer

I posted this on another thread and wanted to put it on this one too...

Just my 2 cents...

I've actually tried a bit of everything mentioned on this thread. Books, boot camps, mentors, seminars, internet forums.

Like anything in life, I ask people who are experts in their field for advice then decide for myself which ones I will use in the end. I apply the same practice in BP. We are all here because we love REI, but we don't know each other personally. So I have to qualify the tips, tricks, advice I get from this site and decide if it is something I would do or not.

This is how I look at books, boot camps, mentors, seminars, etc. I take what I want then apply it the way I want to. It's hard for me to agree with others who say these are "scams" or a waste of money. Since I've tried most of them, I can say that I have always picked up something new. Which helped me in my RE ventures, and I think is worth the price of admission. Regardless if it's $20 for a book or $10K for a mentor program. So far it has worked for me.

In the end, I ended up with more knowledge than I started with.

The negative thing I have about REIAs is that a lot of attendees are beginners who claim to know more than they actually do. It's also harder to qualify the legit investors from the posers.

That's why I've avoided the REIAs and focused more on organizations that are not REI related.

I join charitable orgs, the local Rotary club and similar orgs, and go to places where movers and shakers hang out/dine. Most of the people that you meet in these orgs/places are attorneys, developers, investors, bankers, politicians, doctors, business owners, etc.

For me this has been more effective because you broaden your network. Eventhough you don't meet the specific people you are looking for (REIs), you meet people who know people you are looking for. Plus this weeds out the men from the boys. In fact you end up meeting powerful and influencial people who I think are better contacts than the ones you will meet in REIAs. This strategy has accelerated and opened WAY more opportunities for me in my REI career.

I'm sure you guys know about the 90/10 rule. How many of you have seen the big boys who belong in the 10% go to REIA meets? I'm not knocking on REIA meets, but I am just stating the facts. Rich people like to help each other. It's kinda like a "secret society". These people won't tell you where they're investing unless you're an insider. If you want to learn and find a mentor, might as well aim high and be mentored by the big guys.

In conclusion, I agree and disagree with a lot of the points that were brought up on this thread.

My advice is do whatever you feel that is right for you. Some people learn by reading, some by going to seminars or by being mentored. In the end you will be better off than you were before doing any of these methods.

Good luck!

Alex

Michael Rogers · Answer

Avoid the gurus.  Their expertise is in marketing and encouraging people, not in making people money.  There are several good books out there that you can read.  They are considerably cheaper and if several months down the road you decide real estate investing isn't for you, then at least you won't have a $5,000 credit card bill.

Jason Cummins · Answer

I am not saying people cannot or will not learn from gurus.  In fact I do believe that many people probably are successful because of them.  But there is no better way to learn, than to get out there and do it yourself and learn by experience.

Obviously you need some education to even start, but buying courses that costs thousands or mentorships that cost even more I haven't done, nor will I, so I cannot tell other people to go do them.

There are plenty of seasoned investors a newbie can align him or herself with that wont costs thousands upfront.  Many times they will partner with newbies to split profits on deals.  This is hands on learning and doesn't cost a dime upfront, and really doesn't cost anything if the deal doesn't get done.

I am a fan of books however.  You can go to amazon and get tons of books that cost $10-$20 that has the same knowledge as many of these $3,000 courses and $5,000 seminars.

Mark N.A · Answer

I guess some people need hand-holding, or huge injections of encouragement, or the perfect 'plan', or whatever.  But I'm with Tim about reading books.  I have many many many on REI.  Also, network with other LLs.  Also, read and learn from these posts.  And I'll bet Tim has also spent years watching and learning from his Dad.

The whole point is to get 'educated'.  Do you think you can earn the amounts that, say, a highly-trained physician makes from just a few months of 'coursework'?  A few years?  You are in a field with plenty of competition and I'll tell you this - it's a lot of HARD WORK to be succesful.  And your 'education' will be continuing!  Personally, I'm one of the laziest people around, I hate hard work, and I would pay a king's ransom for a foolproof system!  But try as I can I just don't ever get ahead by cutting corners or taking shortcuts.

All real estate is 'local', and by default what works in my neck of the woods may not work at all where you are.  Want a system?  Build your own.  But first build a solid foundation by educating yourself in every way that works for you.

Personally, I learn best by 'doing'.  And, ha ha, I have paid plenty of 'tuition' from my own pocket - but I won't soon forget those lessons!

"Those that can, do.  Those that can't, teach.  Those that can't teach become coaches.  And those that can't tie their shoes become critics."

Steve Steadele · Answer

Wow. Here's the thing. I suppose many of the gurus have earned their reputation of a scam, rip off, or whatever else you might want to call it. But let me throw in a different point of view.

As a real estate broker, I can't even tell you how many investors I've met with and helped who had NO IDEA WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT!!! They acted like they did. In their mind they thought they did. But when it came right down to it they had no plan and a lot less money than they should have had for the amount of time they'd been in the business. They all thought similar things to some of the posts in this thread - and you know - that doesn't mean they're not doing well. You can make money in real estate without getting ANY education. (You can lose it too.) But how much more money would you make if you had a mentor, coach or course where somebody shows you how it's done? Look up coaching - it's the fastest growing industry out there. Why? Because of the overwhelming number of people who need and want someone who can hold them accountable and help keep them on track. People aren't doubling and tripling their income because it doesn't work.

I've sold apartment building for a long, long time and many of these investors are worth more than $50 million. Others are worth just $3M-$5M. What's the difference?

There are several. One of them is that the investor who has made more money wasn't worried about not knowing everything. In fact, they accepted that they didn't. They picked up a book here, a course there and talked with different investors and agents in the areas they're interested in. But don't think for a second that another investor or an agent - or a guru for that matter - knows everything.

Now here's the good news. Many investors don't have a clue! That means it can be done - and maybe all you do is read a few books. But most investors I know want to make as much money as they can as fast as they can. Many who are worth $3M-$5M started the same way. The key is to start with your goals and objectives and figure out how long it will take you to reach them. Sadly, most have no idea how much faster it could've happened. That's usually a result of a lack of market knowledge or management plan.

I am one of the gurus - so I hesitated to get involved in this thread. But I guarantee that 90% of all the real estate investors out there could do so much better than they're doing right now - they either don't know how or aren't willing to put in the time and effort. Sorry, but that's the truth. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you can't make money. What I am saying is that many courses can actually teach you something - and others will simply try to sell you something else.

Pardon the grammer - it's late and I couldn't sleep so I decided to hop online. New investors - and even seasoned investors - don't discount the power in some of these courses. I had one agent who specializes in the sale of apartment buildings tell me it took him 7 hours to get through one single course - When, Where and How to Buy - because there was so much information in it. That's an agent - who sells apartments... At least he had some clue! There's a little bit of something out there for everyone.

Jason Cummins · Answer

I would agree with these statements.  Guru's are marketing geniuses more than they are real estate geniuses.  Some of their stuff may be ok, but worth it?  Not too sure about that. The only thing I have ever bought from a guru is an e-book about wholesaling.  And it turned out to be more of a "You can do it" book that I spent money on.

I would get as many books from the library on REI as possible.  I would also look up many of the books that people on here recommend.  I would not recommend spending thousands on mentorships or courses.

Good luck

Timothy W. · Answer

Macsgirl,
I lived in Springfield, MO for 5 years - Evangel Grad.  What the heck are you messing with shortsales and a guru for?  Springfield's easy.  You're in the town where my dad built his entire portfolio buying rental property off the MLS.  Ever heard of Aaron Property - brown signs with red/orange lettering?  All that built without no guru.  You can do it too.  In fact the buying's getting better there.  If it's hard to find deals there - check Rogersville or Willard.  Willard had some great prices on property last I check and it's only about 20 minutes out of Springfield.

Ok....if you want any sort of training, read Robert Shemin's Secrets of a Millionaire Investor and Secrets of a Millionaire Landlord and apply a lot of it to cheap Springfield houses.  Only then consider paying anything for a guru.

Tim

Which investments guru do I choose?

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