Eddie Speed Note School

[Brandon Brock]

I attended a 3 day seminar this weekend promoting noteschool. Noteschool is a mentorship and training program for notes performing and non performing. It seems very expensive starting at 16k depending on the level your at. I understand the value in education and mentorship but this is allot of money and I am wanting to start investing in notes. Has anyone heard anything good or bad about eddie speed and note school.

[Brian Winberry]

Bob,

Excellent, you sound like you are having great success as well..

Have we met? If not I would love to meet you at an event soon...always good to put faces to names!

Michelle

[Account Closed]

@Bob Estler,

The going rate for 1st non-performing notes in Arizona is 30% of the UPB. If you are paying off the BPO, you are buying from a broker.

This is my experience.

Joe Gore

[Brian Winberry]

Joe,

Actually purchasing on BPO or UPB is pretty evenly disbursed among the sources. It all depends on their model and what they bought from themselves. We have purchased from several Hedge funds/ owners of notes on the NPN side and it was an even split on what way the pricing went.

Michelle

[Account Closed]

Keep up the good work and make sure who ever service your notes have a license and insurance, and you get a copy for your records. I like buying direct from banks better deals and complete paperwork.

Joe Gore

[Brian Winberry]

Joe,

That is awesome advice! We are all about doing things in the best and most legal way possible to avoid problems. Servicers are pretty close to the top of our CYA list....plus you can scale your business much easier when using proper team members.

Paperwork and Due Diligence are big big issues in this business...Know your craft...very important stuff.

M

[Account Closed]

To the original poster:

This forum is a cesspool of misinformation and negativity when it comes to notes. You would be better served to look elsewhere for information.

The simple truth is that notes aren't that complicated once you understand the basics. You don't need to have years of experience, you don't need to know the most obscure laws in the most obscure states, you don't need hundreds of thousands of dollars to get started.

There are a few "gurus" out there who have mentorship programs that will guide you in the right direction. You basically have 2 options:

1) Join a mentorship program, buy a note, and do everything on your own based on the knowledge you get

2) Some companies joint venture with newbies so you learn while studying what the experienced partner is doing. You share in the risk and the profit, but you also see how they operate and why they do what they do.

If you want some names contact me, as I don't want this to sound like an advertisement.

[Account Closed]

Originally posted by @Ramon Jenkins:
@Rick H.

have saved up to go in the note business ?

Jenkins, it depends what asset class you're looking to buy.

1st, 2nd, performing, non performing, current on the 1st, etc.

Basically that gives you a range from ~5k to 100k+ to get started.

[Account Closed]

A long time ago one of my hard-headed friends here in Dallas bought a note from a note broker and only got half the paperwork which did not include the original loan application and thought they tried to foreclosure, and the judge would not allow it. Later, I found out the note broker caught a chicken truck out of town.

Joe Gore

[J Scott]

Originally posted by @Account Closed:
This forum is a cesspool of misinformation and negativity when it comes to notes. You would be better served to look elsewhere for information.

I've been very involved in this forum for a long time, and I can't recall too many instances where this community has been negative towards notes. In fact, at the last BP Conference, we had some very popular note classes/speakers.

Now, there does seem to be a lot of negativity towards 5-figure training classes, as many of us believe spending that much money isn't necessary in order to be successful in this business (though even 5-figure training is okay with me if the value is there...I just have never seen it). Perhaps you're more bothered by by our anti-guru sentiment, and not our anti-note sentiment?

Can you provide some links to threads where seasoned investors are negative about notes? If that's the case, it's a shame...

[Account Closed]

I agree it doesn't cost that much to invest in notes. I started with only $200K over 20 years ago and still going strong, and I have never bought from a broker because of all the hype and jack up prices and incomplete paperwork.

Joe Gore

[Brian Winberry]

J Scott,

I agree there is not much negative I see on here about Notes, but I have only perused a little on that topic here. I am intrigued though and will be checking more out as my time permits. I have been interested today through all of this conversation (last day of school for my kids so I had less on my plate than usual waiting for them and all of their pre summer energy to arrive).

Regarding the Anti Guru sentiment....I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY...the sad fact of the matter is that many are NOT worth their price tag. That was the entire reason our weekly investor group spun off, because we had seen several 'gurus' come to town. They worked the crowd, as most of them do, and then left. Leaving the folks to their own devices to figure things out, with empty wallets and full credit cards. Some had other events in other states designed to elicit high emotions and fun, solidifying what was basic information as something secretive, which it really wasn't, it was just more enjoyable and easier to learn in the 'fun zone'. The Real Estate business in general can be learned by meeting and having a local 'mentor' walk you through things...classes, seminars, and the like are great "motivators" and open your eyes to new ways to do things, give you energy and connect you to others in the space. Spending money is not the great evil, it is being uneducated on what you are buying and the quality of the product that will cause a problem.

Regarding not seeing a program worth 5 figures could be a subjective response though....I have seen one, or two out of all the ones we have showed up for out of curiosity in the real estate arena in general....and one of those two happens to be Eddie Speed. I wish that there was an easy window into the NoteSchool process so people who have not been exposed could see what I see, but I don't know how they would make that happen. It is a community, an experience, and a journey. Where other Guru's pass people off into their marketing machine or worse leave them alone, Eddie Stays on. When we show up to more events or talk to him on phone calls and webinars(regularly, like every week), he KNOWS who we are and can communicate with us in a manner I have NEVER experienced before. It is really a good thing for those of us who chose to take the journey together.

But not everyone is cut out for the note business or is really ready to be that deep in it, for those that do, it is really worth the look....

M

[Account Closed]

Originally posted by @J Scott:

Originally posted by @Account Closed:
This forum is a cesspool of misinformation and negativity when it comes to notes. You would be better served to look elsewhere for information.

I've been very involved in this forum for a long time, and I can't recall too many instances where this community has been negative towards notes. In fact, at the last BP Conference, we had some very popular note classes/speakers.

Now, there does seem to be a lot of negativity towards 5-figure training classes, as many of us believe spending that much money isn't necessary in order to be successful in this business (though even 5-figure training is okay with me if the value is there...I just have never seen it). Perhaps you're more bothered by by our anti-guru sentiment, and not our anti-note sentiment?

Can you provide some links to threads where seasoned investors are negative about notes? If that's the case, it's a shame...

It's not so much that they are negative about notes themselves, it's that they discourage newcomers from ever getting in the game. No need to name names. Some here try to convince you that the Feds are going to come kick your door down and drag you away screaming if you buy a NPN.

My message is get educated then take action. Don't let the naysayers convince you it's too risky or "dangerous".

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you should buy a NPN without knowing the basics. But it's not any more complicated than doing rehabs, which you've done. The first few you did, you didn't know everything there is to know, yet you're still here thriving.

[J Scott]

Originally posted by @Brian Winberry:

Regarding not seeing a program worth 5 figures could be a subjective response though....I have seen one, or two out of all the ones we have showed up for out of curiosity in the real estate arena in general....

In my opinion (and just my opinion), the expected value of a typical deal, the length (in terms of time) of the deal and the likelihood I'd actually complete deals after the seminar are three big factors in what's a reasonable price for education.

For example, I could never justify spending $20K to learn how to make money on things that cost $50 to sell and the average transaction time period is one day. I could lose my entire investment 400 times (and get 400 practice sessions in 400 days) for the price of the education, and if I couldn't learn the ropes well before I completed 400 deals in a single year, I'm not cut out for that business. Period.

Likewise with flipping houses -- I've flipped a lot of houses, and it's safe to say that if, with the knowledge you can get for free, it's tough to lose more than $10K in many parts of the country (barring some macro-economic event). If you lose more than $30K in flipping deals before you learn the business, you're either not really taking advantage of the free education out there, or you don't have what it takes to flip houses. If you do nothing more than post your potential deals here on BP and listen to our feedback, it should be tough to lose more than $30K flipping houses before you learn the business. Not to mention that the likelihood of someone actually doing flip deals after taking a typical high-priced seminar is probably not very high.

Therefore, it would be hard for me to believe that spending $50K on education (that doesn't even involved being principal in a deal) would be a good value.

Now, if you're talking about assets worth many hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars (large apartments, large commercial, etc.), then the downside on a particular deal is easily in the 5- or 6-figures. And the time period of the investment is quite a bit of time -- often 2-10 years. It's those types of deals where I would argue that higher-cost education might be justified, as it would be cheaper to spend money on the education than to screw up even a single deal. And also where it would be tough to learn the industry over one or two deals because the deal time-frame is so long (I could make mistakes that I didn't recognize until 5 years into the deal).

In this case, we're talking about notes. I don't know if the typical note value being discussed is $500 or $50,000. And I don't know if the typical note time-frame is one week or five years. And I don't know the likelihood of someone doing a deal during or after the program. These things make a difference.

I've done a few note deals (as both buyer and seller), and I think I learned a tremendous amount doing those deals. Total value of the notes was less than $10K, and it seemed very unlikely that I'd lose more than 25% on any of those deals assuming I had even a modicum of knowledge about what I was doing.

I don't know what the value of the notes are that are being taught in this program. I don't know how many deals like this I could do on my own before I could reasonably expect my worst-case results to be a loss of $16K. I don't know how likely I am to not lose any money based on the value of the information I would receive through the program. And I don't know the likelihood that I'd ever do deals like this if I went through the program.

Those are the key questions I'd want answered before I could decide if the program were worth that value to me. (not asking for that information...this is hypothetical)

[Account Closed]

@J Scott,

I have to agree with you.

Joe Gore

[Brian Winberry]

Which point, exactly as I had wished, would be answered if you had a windows view into what I do and know...and unfortunately there is no window other than us posting our experiences.

Suffice it to say, If you see the big picture and want to be in this aspect of the business, it makes sense...if you don't then there's your answer.

It made perfect sense to us, and to many many others, so we do this business. Ourselves and those many many others are doing the business, have made our money back and then some....and BTW it is not anywhere near 50K...5 figures is all that was stated...FYI...

You are correct you can afford to make a mistake on a 10K investment and not have lost what you would have invested in training. But what if you could do, as I have, multiple deals under 5 k and earn back that 5 k and 10K more each deal...and exponentially higher on each deal that is higher priced than that? Just by the knowledge, expertise, guidance, and support of a group you are connected to?

We have purchased notes for as little as $960.00 and as much as $50K, but for the average they have been around $15-20K each... all of those having made an average return of 150% in an average return time of 3-6 months...I'll take that over a kick in the pants and shot in the dark any day.

M

[Rick H.]

On the general topic of education, I figure in an average year I spend $20,000 - 30,000, including training, airfare, hotels and such. I have no hesitation to invest in myself as it's produced the best returns of all investments, glands down.

I get to do this because I've invested well and enjoy both the training and the learning process, and typically make friends with others I meet along the way with common interests.

Should others spend that kind of money? When I was starting, it would have been wasted because I didn't know what I didn't know. I needed to learn the basics and have a solid foundation in real estate and mortgages first.

My opinion is that spending money on specialized education makes little sense until were ready. My analogy is that of a pilot trainee who had just completed ground and has yet to fly solo. It would be overwhelming to pay for advanced training in a high-performance, sophisticated, multi-engine fighter jet when you're still trying to land the airplane safely.

[Dion DePaoli]

Originally posted by @Account Closed:
@Bob Estler,
The going rate for 1st non-performing notes in Arizona is 30% of the UPB. If you are paying off the BPO, you are buying from a broker.

This is my experience.

Joe Gore

Joe, I simply love your absolute statements. So the market for NPN's with 50% equity is 30% UPB. Good to know. It's amazing anyone ever lost money investing in notes with such simple applicable ideas.

Originally posted by @Brian Winberry

Joe,

Actually purchasing on BPO or UPB is pretty evenly disbursed among the sources. It all depends on their model and what they bought from themselves. We have purchased from several Hedge funds/ owners of notes on the NPN side and it was an even split on what way the pricing went.

Michelle

Brian or Michelle...(I guess two of you use the same account) and Joe:

Let's clear this all up for the readers. This idea that one purchases a loan either rooted in Principal Balance or Value of Collateral does not exist. There is no such "either or" problem. This simply is because both ideas are just math operations and not real things in and of themselves. A loan that trades at 60% of BPO or 30% of UPB can be the same loan. Which one of those is used to describe the math equation to find the cash purchase price is all that is being done there. A $200k UPB with a $100k BPO purchased for $60k is the same $60k in purchase proceeds not matter how I say it. To imply otherwise is silly.

The tendency is to use UPB as the basis for discussion since UPB is not up to opinion. If I offer you 60% of BPO, that is only relative so long as you know what BPO number I am using. Mine, yours, the one down the street. UPB is not subjective like that, the balance of the loan is the balance of the loan.

At the same time, UPB must also be evaluated against the collateral. So, one idea with no understanding of the other is not the best practice. Like my example to Joe, a loan with 50% equity will trade for more than 30% of UPB. In experienced folks talk with about these topics and it gives the wrong impression. If I had a nickle for every time I have heard or seen someone try and illustrate a good deal based only on the percentage of UPB I would have a lot more loans. Just because you purchased at 10% UPB doesn't mean you got a good deal.

Originally posted by Joe Gore

A long time ago one of my hard-headed friends here in Dallas bought a note from a note broker and only got half the paperwork which did not include the original loan application and thought they tried to foreclosure, and the judge would not allow it. Later, I found out the note broker caught a chicken truck out of town.

Joe Gore

Joe, I suppose a long long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away Uniform Residential Loan applications were mistaken for Security Instruments and Promissory Notes. I am glad we have come so far forward. I am also interested to know why your friend purchased said file with only half of the contents. Help us understand, how did not having the loan application void the standing of the Mortgage or Deed of Trust?

Readers: a broker is not the contractual party who is responsible to deliver the file and it's contents to you. That is the obligation of the Seller, (unless you are in more of an origination setting) who is a principal to the purchase and sale contract. If a broker steps into the role of the Seller, then they are the Seller not the broker per contract. Pretty simple stuff. My advice, if you are going to join the pitchfork mob, make sure you are all headed to the right house.

In regards to the Eddie Speed program. I have glanced at some stuff about it over the past couple years. I was under the impression from other posts on this topic is that there is some smaller introduction class and fee and then the larger fee and program come thereafter. I was under the brief impression his core is rooted toward Seller Finance work. Certainly some of the ideas are applicable on both sides but users should know some differences do apply.

I think when evaluating anything we should be critical of what is ordinary and what is extraordinary. Many folks are once again turning to RE and RE related assets as a new form of income or additional form of income, etc. Jumping in to expect to make 150% returns in 6 months is not ordinary. Can you have a deal with high rates of return? Yes. Often times, those are not deals with large capital demands. Anyone and I mean Anyone, who can produce any return remotely close to 100% and repeat it in a year or a month or whatever would have more money than they know what to do with from their own investments not to mention the large amounts of job offers from investors both private and institutional. I have completed trades where our return was literately in the thousands. I am more than happy to tell the story about that ONE deal. It was less about something tricky or magical that I did and more about how it played out in the market. That trade looked and acted just like all the other ones.

Teaming up with someone with more experience and knowledge than you is always a good idea. Whatever arrangement you are comfortable with is yours to figure out. Understand results will vary from student to student and teacher to teacher. I am not sure we could fairly analyze such a thing, although it would be pretty interesting. If you spend $16k can you walk out the door and start buying loans and do well or do you need more time and support? I would think that idea would be a crucial part of the evaluation. After all, that is the question, if I invest $16k into this, how soon until I make my money back?

[Account Closed]

@Dion DePaoli,

A Guru told my friend on what to do, and he did not know what he was supposed to get as for as paperwork. I did not say anything about loan application void the standing of the Mortgage or Deed of Trust? I have been buying notes for many years and the banks provide me a hard copy of the original loan application.

Joe Gore

[J Scott]

Originally posted by @Brian Winberry:
We have purchased notes for as little as $960.00 and as much as $50K, but for the average they have been around $15-20K each... all of those having made an average return of 150% in an average return time of 3-6 months...

You're saying that you average over 400% annual returns investing in notes?

Sorry, but I've never heard a single note investor (any investor?) ever make that kind of claim with any substantial amount of money and for any substantial amount of time.

To think, I was actually starting to give you the benefit of the doubt...

[Brian Winberry]

J Scott,

The thing about what I do is interesting..We don't do large pools, we buy mini pools that I scavenger hunt very very hard. And I am very good at it.

So, you are correct, the average note investor does not make those kinds of returns, but we have and I have the paperwork to prove it...I will happily show you docs to prove it if you really require that to believe...

I also said Average 150% so there are those with higher and those with lower...Just to be clear.

False statements and pumping is not my thing, ask those who sit with me week after week for many years and know me personally. They have seen, and they know I am telling the truth...and 90% of them are not even in the note business, just real estate in general.

Sorry that you are skeptical, but this business is a risk reward business, especially on the NPN side, and if you take a calculated risk based on significantly good due diligence, the reward DOES EXIST....I never said everyone can do it, but I have.

I really am glad to show you, that way you won't need to feel like I don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. I think I do deserve it. Because it is the truth.

Again, learning my lesson not to post on forums, because it can prove to be a waste of time because of each different persons receptive filters and life experience create a bias.Because of my willingness to be open on topics that are dear to me but if you don't know me you cannot easily believe, I get critical commentary leveled my way.

Michelle

[Jay Hinrichs]

@Brian Winberry

@J Scott

@Jackie Lange

@Rick H.

I don't have a dog in this hunt BUT I have probably done more note investing than most of all of the audience combined. Why anyone would step into NP notes when there are good performing notes is a mystery to me. I guess the lure of huge returns.

When someone says they are making some incredible return I just look back at the WADE COOK stock market books, with those returns being touted this investor would be long ago retired and NOT on BP.

Like most investors in the paper business I have bought my share of good deals. but. So much of this paper that is being bandied about is mid west Mich. Ohio etc etc.. Just garbage paper in my mind. There is a reason the sellers of this paper off load it for pennies on the dollar... There was a few years were prime CA and West coast paper was trading at 60 to 70% but those days are long gone.

The paper business ( the sand box I play in) is huge.. However for me I want nice performing notes ( why would I concisely make an investment into a problem asset) and I want realistic returns.. Again personally speaking I would so much rather have a nice conservative return that I could count on than foreclosing on some low life in kokomo or Detroit or wherever.

just my 2 cents.

[Bill Gulley]

Jay, I agree in what you're saying, except, no you haven't had more notes purchased, your experience isn't near mine on several fronts, so let's not make it a whizzing contest. :)

J. Scott, I have no issue with what is being claimed as a return by Brian. I really can't say what my average return was because over the decades I didn't keep track, it's not a relevant measurement. However, I can say 150% yield is not uncommon at all, I'd say most of mine were above and over a twenty+ year term in doing so in a brokerage. As Dion mention, we can get into the thousands % as you're measuring the return over time. The method I mentioned above of refinancing notes, try to calculate a yield on buying a discounted note and 30 minutes later refinancing it at the UBP! It's silly.

I believe Jay built homes, financed them, held and sold notes, basically. I trained and set up the same type of seller financed side for the largest home builder in the state. I'm also the only guy in the state that appraised notes for the State of Missouri with the understanding that offers could also be made. Servicing notes in a 7 state area added to the inventory, technically the notes were purchased, a purchase-repurchase arrangement to ensure (insure in a way) the payments. It was the only operation like it in the country as could be found through regulatory bodies and it was deemed compliant. Now, under Dodd-Frank, that could be a monster. Lucky I sold out!

I can assure you that there can be instances where you can set up note transactions that will smoke your calculator. I do doubt 90% of those that deal in notes get into such arrangements. I don't go into my business tactics for two good reasons: 1. I'm sure it would be like giving an Uzi to a 10 year old with someone like a couple in this thread trying to duplicate and 2. Because my situation and circumstances, the position I was in can't be duplicated by just anyone, if by anyone. So, there is no need to go there. It also took a few years to get cranking, it was not an overnight event.

We have investors that get involved in pools, syndications, partnerships, fractionalized interests and they think they are in the note business....I guess in a way they are, but they aren't drilling down into the finance business, they are top floaters thinking they are doing due diligence. They are probably non-compliant arrangements or, at the least involved in risks they have no clue about, but as things go well at the time and they may money they are satisfied with their simplified approaches. What usually happens is that houses of cards fall, they just haven't been in the arena long enough to find out.

I have seen seminars that might be similar to the Speed organization, heck, it might have been him, I don't remember. Passing notes through chains or inside a loop of investors is pretty much nothing more than churning accounts. Much of this type of business simply comes from portfolio management, tweaking a portfolio by one entity releasing inventory and acquiring more, it increases the yield by conducting exchanges over having a note sit there paying to maturity. If a stock broker were to do the same thing with bond holders in his agency with investor clients it would be illegal, (churning accounts) in the note business it's accepted practice. Is it ethical to float notes through a chain of "students"? Depends. It's much about the velocity of money, quicker turn overs drive up yields when there are discounts acquired and then premiums/profits for the seller.

Another aspect, this is all about mortgages, probably mostly residential stuff. Consider commercial loans, I had some jumbos. As Dion mentioned it's not about a % of UPB, bottom line it's the spread of the discount and time held too. Consider auto loans, inventory, commercial paper, annuities and even RE and equipment leases. Any legal obligation to pay an amount certain over time can be discounted and traded or held. Any portion of cash flow may be discounted and collected for a period certain.

As to education, you are not going to learn the aspects of the "Paper Game" from any guru program on the face of this earth. Small investors can go there but they will not be dealing in dollar amounts that justify the type of risks and assessments made by large investors or institutional types.

What I can assure you is that your greatest yield will, or at least should, come from a transaction accomplished only by a seller and a buyer, that is the most efficient transaction. To do that, you better know what you're doing, that or just be lucky.

If you are to learn finance, the markets, legal aspects, collateral assessments, collections, taxation and mortgage underwriting, strategies, modifications......well, I have to laugh at paying big bucks for any 2,3 week course. You could easily have any two of the areas mentioned (in some areas one) consume 8 hour classes, 5 days a week for an entire 6 week semester. Would you use that type of in depth study? May not, certainly not everyday. Should you know or be aware of such knowledge? Absolutely if you're going to operate alone on your money, IMO.

I never took a guru course of any course outside institutional, government or college in any aspect of finance. I know dang good and well these "note students" are not getting that type of education.

I paint with a broad brush, mainly because I can hold a big brush. :)

[Jay Hinrichs]

@Bill Gulley

Your right Bill I got ahead of my self there.... while I have bought and sold many notes I am sure I am not the top dog in that game by any stretch.

However I have never built a home and then sold it on owner contract. I don't do anything owner occ in the note bizz I only buy or make new loans on commercial properties non owner occ. When I build and sell homes it to a homeowner that gets a mortgage and we are cash out.. There is NO such thing as OC in our current market here in Oregon. 5 years ago yes.. But not for the last oh bout 3 years. Unless its an odd ball property or some very high end or someone is paying far over market for it.

The point that I was trying to make and did not make very well. Is back on point where there are seminars one can go to and mentoring or guruing for the note business. there was a buy in Denver can recall his name and he got shut down by the feds. And I could always tell when someone had just bought his system.. they would have an add on craigs list ( I was looking to sell some of my OREO paper and when you get them on the phone they are running down a script and had no clue as to what they were doing).

There are companies that ( and they are probably some of these other people on BP that I should know what they do but I don't that specialize in very low value notes that get sold in tapes by banks all the time).. I have seen many of these tapes over the years. And yes they can be bought cheap but they are scattered and I really look at these types of investments much like going into Detroit and buying homes for 1k or less. I know many of my past borrowers that make a living trading these very low valued homes in Detroit. and other mid west rust belt markets. So yes its possible to buy a note and make a huge return but like owing a home in Detroit that you paid 1k for and sold to some unsuspecting Cash flow investor for 30k and made a whopping % profit its not sustainable @J Scott like J Scott mentioned.

And the idea in my mind that you can take newbies that go to course's and teach them how to buy non performing assets and then go through the foreclosure process for the reinstatement process while it can be done I bet a fair amount of them ( just like cash flow investors buying Ghetto) the assets are the same and all the same troubles come along with them.

At least that's my view. So I go back to Hey for me personally I would rather buy a nice performing note why take on someone else's troubles. Unless with this caveat It was going to be my Business focus and I was going to become very good at it and do it basically full time.

Exact same thoughts I have for owning C and D class rentals one needs to jump in with both feet to be successful at that arm chair investing in these asset class's leads to a lot of lost money.

[Bill Gulley]

Yes, agreed, I don't know where I got the idea you built and carried, may be was a comment from you yesteryears where you did a few. Anyway, yes, if you know how to work performing notes and can get a decent discount (unlikely from institutions) they can be a gravy train. I'd never go to Detroit unless I'm going to Canada, nothing against the folks up there, but I doubt if they'd come here too, meaning I wouldn't buy there either.

I'm probably the most conservative of the bunch here, I don't mind taking whatever so long as I know what I'm getting. Lots of ways to do things. :)

[Account Closed]

I don't care how many notes someone bought or sold or home long they have been in the note business. They are not a top dog in the business, there is still room to learn and after 20 years I am still learning.

Joe Gore