Help me understand PGH

[Samantha N.]

Hi Everyone,

A little about me & my fiance to start this question: 

We are moving to Pittsburgh in the next several months, and he'll be working at Allegheny Hospital. He's primarily interested in a non-stressful commute and we are looking at owner-occupying something that cash flows at least a bit. 

We've lived all over in the last several years: Boston, Chicago, Iowa, Ohio... and soon Pittsburgh. We've always been renters and rented B+ or A apartments.

No matter where we lived we have always ended up paying ~800-1200/mo for an apartment, whether 1 or 2 bedroom.  And we never lived somewhere considered "expensive" for the city we were in at the time. But even in 1 large and 1 very small town in Ohio, it was around the same. 

Now the question: What is UP with Pittsburgh? Except for Shadyside, the rents seem very low compared to other cities I have been even for nice rentals, but there don't seem to be a ton of those. Like, crazy low rents from my frame of reference. 

However, the condos, multi-families and even single family houses that I have stalked on the MLS seem very high priced for what they are offering compared with other cities we have lived in. And especially compared to what rental prices seem to be in the area. To me most of what I have seen on the MLS seems to be very old, not updated and oddly laid out, like row houses that are very tall but insanely skinny with very steep staircases, condos with wallpaper from the 80s and window A/C units, etc. Or WAY too expensive and a crazy level 10 modernized penthouse or townhome. Where's the middle ground?

What's up with the old, non-updated vibe I'm getting from looking into the market? Is it just where I am looking, and I should direct my attention elsewhere? Or maybe what I'm looking for doesn't really exist in the PGH market right now? I guess I'm just looking for a cool, walkable neighborhood that is up and coming but offers some nicer home options with larger size rooms that would just need cosmetic updating, not a ground-up rehab to modernize it. Bonus points if it's an easy commute to Allegheny Hospital. 

Educate me about PGH, BiggerPockets!

[Jeremy Lee]

Hi Samantha,

Welcome to PGH. I think lots of what you are looking at has to deal with the era that these properties have been built in and the types of modernizations that are coming to PGH. Each wave of people moving in had new things built. The first wave was the steel mills and industrial age, this created lots of developments around the same time. After the hospitals got big and tech moved in starting in the mid to late 2000's, this let to a new wave of people moving in and causing more revitalization, hence renovation. Since it is all timeframe dependent, that is why you are seeing the two ends of the spectrum. It also has to deal with the area, Lawrenceville and Bloomfield recently turned over, within the last 5 years. This means that lots of properties are either of the old era, quarters for a different social economic class of people and lots of properties have been redone for the new era, representing a new class of people. This is what you will find in the city, to find that middle ground, you need to go to the suburbs. Most of the city is very old and the buildings remain from that timeframe, anything new was built within the last decade due to the economic cycle of the city.

If you are looking for more middle ground, look to the suburban areas, Wexford, Cranberry and Bethel Park, these areas have developments from the 80s and 90s and do not have the funky layouts that you see. These are really nice areas, but you can find places and houses that rent for a $2000 on the low end.  These are A/A+ areas.

If you go to like Westview, Bellevue and parts of Brighton Heights you could probably get a nicer house for $1200/1100 per month. These are basically B areas, depending which parts you are in. Some are row houses, but you can get a nice free standing house that is in decent condition for this amount. I know someone who recently redid a house near fineview and wanted $1100/mo, not the best area but really nice house.

If you area near allegheny hospital, there are a couple newer townhomes in the north side ($1100/mo) and some nicer homes between milvale and etna, they aren't row houses, rather standalone houses for about ($800/mo).

Again everything is location dependent, and that dictates the type of housing stock you will find, hence the types of apartments available for rent.

If you are looking for a place that needs paint and carpet to buy and rehab, you probably won't find these places in the 'hipster' areas, many of these places are old and need lots to rehab, these would exist in the suburbs with not great margins. Ultimately, it depends on what your goal is, do you want to rent? Or do you want to do a live-in-flip? Let me know your criteria and we will try to help you find a suitable area.

Best of luck,

Jeremy