Adding a Second Bathroom costs?

Question

Hello,

My husband and I have been looking at properties in the Philadelphia area and saw a large difference in the rents of buildings with two bathrooms versus one bathroom. We wanted to see what type of issues or cost we should expect if we want to install a second bathroom in a rental property. One of our concerns is if there would be enough space. Any advice would be appreciated.

Mike McCarthy · Answer

I’ve found the biggest issue in Philly row houses is finding a spot for a 2nd bath.

In a 4/1, I took part of an ex-dining room and added a 6x6’ full bath which added about $15K to the ARV.

I considered adding a half bath to a 2/1, and while I’m sure it would increase the ARV some, I didn’t pull the trigger since it’s less needed in a 2BR house.

At least most of the houses around here have basements where the piping can be run pretty easily. Most houses that I’ve looked at don’t run into any huge issues adding a bath to the 1st floor. I’ve also seen some 4/1s turned into 3/2 with a master suite... though I’m not sure if it’s worthwhile for a rental - maybe a flip?

Steve Babiak · Answer

It's not just the slope of the drain to consider when there is a big distance from the stack to the location of a bathroom. Proper venting becomes an issue as well; each pipe diameter in use for drains will have a maximum distance from the stack that you'll find in the plumbing code that you must adhere to, otherwise the function of the drain will be terrible.

Brett Stander · Answer

@Daniel Taylor

We focus on looking for buy and hold opportunities in highly appreciating areas, but in terms of your question, I would say it’s actually both! We do focus on the ARV above all things, so when we’re looking for what to do to the house we start with that. Our goal is to recoup the initial investment, and to at least break even so that we can hold the property and rent it out while having zero of our original investment tied up.

Good question and feel free to DM me!

Brett

Brett Stander · Answer

Hey Christine!

Let me preface this by saying I am no expert on construction, so I won't be able to give you nearly the same logistical info that the people above have given. However, I do have a bit of knowledge on adding a bathroom to properties to increase ARV, so I can touch on that.

Anyone who's worth their weight in the real estate world can tell you that bathrooms and kitchens sell homes. For this reason, when I look to evaluate the numbers on a new house, I generally start (or even narrow my search by) number of bathrooms.

Personally, my partner and I look to invest in the west Philadelphia area. There are pros and cons to doing so, and I am happy to discuss these at a later time if you would like.

In these neighborhoods (Mantua, The creeks, Haddington, etc) value of adding another bathroom is heavily dependent on so many factors, that an answer of "yes" or "no" in terms of adding a bathroom is relatively impossible to answer. In fact, the valuation is so difficult, that it may make sense to add a bathroom to a house, but to leave its neighboring house as a one bath.

In terms of legitimate numbers, besides the construction cost above, remember that the majority of these homes are very old and adding rooms can be tedious, stressful, and might make you want to pull your hair out! Row homes are usually older (A lot of the ones I look at are from the 1920s!) and the set up of the home is difficult to change. When my partner and I plan on rehabbing a bathroom (full gut) we usually don't plan on spending more than $7,500-10,000, depending on area, size, etc.

At the end of the day, do what makes sense from an ARV standpoint. If adding a $25,000 dollar rooftop deck to my property would increase its ARV by $40,000, I would do it without a second thought (so to speak of course!)

I hope this helped, and feel free to shoot me a message!

Pat L. · Answer

Last year on a 1125 sq ft flip I added a 1/2 bath by expanding a useless 2nd story closet between the 2 upper bedrooms. Then added another 1/2 bath on the ground floor in a dead end hallway to the basement. Then I moved the old 4x7 main bathroom to the rear of the home expanding it 7x15, with room for a stackable W/D. Running all that 3" PVC & dry venting was a logistical feat. Running HVAC trunk lines to the old ductwork was another fun issue.

I pulled the permits, had the inspections (prior to & after drywall) & passed. He did shake his head a bit wondering how the PVC runs all met 'code slope' & made sure all dry venting was to code. I only cheated on the lower 1/2 bath with a code compliant AAV.

We did all the work ourselves so labor was just the fun of doing it.

Cost of materials: Main Bath about $2k, 1/2 baths about $225 each from my spreadsheet.

We got most of the materials on sale at Lowes: Good quality fiberglass Bath tub $125 (small chip hidden by tile) the toilets $35/each (both non-stock returns), double vanity $175  (side against wall damaged).

All the shower stall & floor porcelain tile 75cents/sq ft from auction, Pex, PVC & fittings $185, all elect $100, 1/2 bath vanities $35 each (slight side damage hidden) Lighting $75, all mirrors $100, shower diverter/faucets $275, exhaust fans $30 each on sale.

Drywall (was all culled edge damaged sheets) $75. On a recent project we picked up 54 sheets of edge damaged drywall for $50 from Lowes. Used all but 12.

Then for Covid-19 isolation fun my wife & I just finished building a studio apartment from scratch & the 5x9 bathroom was <$1000 total (4x3 shower stall base, no tub). The ceiling, trim & baseboards are all cedar.

Account Closed · Answer

Also, what is the cost of the building permit and would there be an additional tax that resulted in your annual property taxes.

Daniel Taylor · Answer

Hey Brett - when you're investing in this area, are you flipping the houses or are you boosting the ARV and then doing a cash-out refi?

Calvin Ozanick · Answer

Adding on to what was posted by @Andrew C Hammes if you have room directly above or below the bathroom that would work the best. It is a pretty common standard that 3 bedrooms are more valuable than 2 bathrooms. If you have to choose between the 2, I would obviously recommend the bedroom. However, to properly do a bathroom from scratch, it is easily going to run 5k depending on how good of a contractor relationship you have.

Andrew C Hammes · Answer

Not sure of what type of building you have but here are a few things to consider.

usually there is a single drain running from the roof to the basement floor. In 2 story buildings you will usually find the bathrooms stacked above eachother with the kitchen sink not far away because they all need to drain. The water lines are usually run nearby. I consider this the wet part of the house. The further you place a 2nd bathroom away from this stack, the more you need to consider the slope of the drain and headroom might become an issue.

If you have a single story, it is possible to put it in the basement but cost is higher due to cutting concrete and such. There is also a system that is basically a holding tank that sits behind the wall for a basement bath that collects waste and water and pumps it to the stack without going under concrete but i feel like its one more thing to break down and the initial cost of a toilet to work with that setup may be more expensive.

you could also consider a half bath as you would need less room. Hope that helps

Adding a Second Bathroom costs?

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