Conversation with the devil

Conversation with the devil

Real Estate Agent · Coral Springs, FL · Member since 2017 · 88 posts · 76 votes
Ok he wasn’t the devil, actually a nice guy. But they say there’s a fine line between insanity and genius and this guy personified that. Basically I had lunch today with a mortgage modification expert along with my a partner and a lawyer friend who knew this guy. Almost all of it was above my head. Besides he spoke a mile a minute. Basically he is a consultant to law firms. Sensing our heads spinning our lawyer friend said he’s seen him give seminars to lawyers and most have the same look. Anyway I did come away with a few things that I wanted to run by those more knowledgeable than me. Basically he was saying that sometimes people got behind for one reason or another but now have the money to pay. But banks being banks have guidelines. If mortgages are accelerated (actually the lawyer mentioned that term) they will not stop the foreclosure process unless UPB is paid in full. (These seemed to be on higher end properties). Then, since they are in foreclosure, no bank will touch them. So the loans get sold in pools to the big players way above us. As he has access to the files he knows who has the wherewithal to pay and can cherry pick, so again from what I understood, pay the UPB and originate another loan for the buyer. He said some like Caliber won’t do it as they had long term plans (didn’t understand that) but banks would. (Also bears mentioning that the buyers need to come up with some money and pay points and other fees). I’m not really doing justice to what this guy was saying. I’ve never heard of mortgage acceleration. Is that common? I know banks have their guidelines and don’t budge from them. It seems like a backdoor way to get notes before it even gets sold off to the big players. Any thoughts on this?
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Investor · Small Town, TX · Member since 2016 · 110 posts · 252 votes
8y

It's a clause in most mortgages that once the loan has defaulted, you can accelerate the loan to make the full balance due now instead of over the full term. It can be a payment default, it can be some other clause like failure to pay taxes and insurance, or renting out that house you bought under the premise that you would live in it. 

I have used it before. Mainly with deadbeat borrowers who just won't get it together and I'm tired of messing with them. You'd be surprised at how many borrowers on the low end feel like their IRS refunds are the answer to everything and you see lots of borrowers catching up in Feb and Mar.

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  • Investor · Small Town, TX · Member since 2016 · 110 posts · 252 votes
    8y

    It's a clause in most mortgages that once the loan has defaulted, you can accelerate the loan to make the full balance due now instead of over the full term. It can be a payment default, it can be some other clause like failure to pay taxes and insurance, or renting out that house you bought under the premise that you would live in it. 

    I have used it before. Mainly with deadbeat borrowers who just won't get it together and I'm tired of messing with them. You'd be surprised at how many borrowers on the low end feel like their IRS refunds are the answer to everything and you see lots of borrowers catching up in Feb and Mar.

  • Real Estate Agent · Coral Springs, FL · Member since 2017 · 88 posts · 76 votes
    8y

    @Adam Adams Hi Adam. From what I understood, he gave us a recent example of a deal he was assisting the lawyer where for example the house was worth a million dollars (rounding all numbers off) and the UPB was $700,000. The people now had the money to pay and wanted to put up $200,000 but as it was accelerated and already in foreclosure, the bank refused.

    I was stunned. I asked “you mean the bank won’t take a dime even if the the borrowers wanted to make a substantial payment”? And that’s when the accelerated part came in.

    The lawyer chimed in and said once it’s accelerated they won’t be stopping the foreclosure to risk them doing it again. 

    The other guy said you could just pay off the UPB, collect the $200,000 and even do a interest only loan for 12 months and then sell it as a performing Note. Again I'm really not doing justice to what this guy was saying. He literally seemed like a mad scientist.

    By the way, the reason I called him the devil jokingly is he was saying by the time he’s done with a bank trying to foreclose or worse one of us, they would be paying a million in legal fees as he’d hit them with 3 Respa violations a day and some error deficiency thing he’d be constantly filing. (Again I didn’t understand it all or not even most). 

    Really the only part that made sense to me is even if they wanted to put up a substantial amount of money (and again he can cherry pick the ones he wants) the borrower can’t go to another bank and refinance once they are in foreclosure. 

    That part was clear. 

    Thank you!

  • Lender · Redmond, WA · Member since 2014 · 553 posts · 490 votes
    8y

    @Account Closed - Your guy is simply buying defaulted loans from banks at par and doing workouts with borrowers.  Paying full price only works if you are buying loans with significant equity, i.e., loan balance is less than property value.  He would be making the arrearage as his profit in this case, i.e., take a payment from the borrower against the arrears and capitalize the rest of it into the modified balance.  Now he holds a performing loan which is greater than his investment plus whatever he could get from the borrower as a payment.  This would only work on high value collateral, with large arrearage, and only when there is significant equity.

  • Real Estate Agent · Coral Springs, FL · Member since 2017 · 88 posts · 76 votes
    8y

    @Mike Hartzog thank you Sir. This is what me and my partner were discussing. It does seem that’s what he was talking about. It just he said some other things I didn’t understand. 

    Thanks again. Any angle that will get me in I’m going to explore. 

  • Lender · Ladera Ranch, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    @Account Closed Another point to remember is that the borrower has the option to reinstate or payoff the loan when they are in default. In your example, yes the borrower would need to pay the entire UPB plus fees for a "payoff," which is what the other two were referring to. However, with $200k to apply towards their loan, they probably have enough to "reinstate," the loan. Reinstating a loan means getting the loan completely current. After a reinstatement, the borrower would need to continue paying the loan as agreed. After reading about the guy's threat regarding RESPA violations, my instinct would be not to do any business with him. Just my opinion....

  • Real Estate Agent · Coral Springs, FL · Member since 2017 · 88 posts · 76 votes
    8y
    Andreas Mirza yes I figured the same but he was talking about UPB of about $800,000. They might not have that. As for the RESPA violations, remember this is who the lawyers call in when they are fighting foreclosure. That’s why I jokingly called him “the devil”. But I’m new and any info anywhere is good for me. Thanks
  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    8y

    @Andy Mirza Exactly.....a borrower almost Always has the right to pay up the arrears to reinstate the loan.  This sounds like just all smoke and mirrors/BS.  Sounds a lot like a foreclosure defense attorney I met with years ago who "Had the secret method" to defeat banks on the SOL in FL when that delusional theory was in vogue....absolute crap, as it turns out.

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