Selling Partials To Provide "Financing" For SDIRA - No UBIT/UDFI?

Selling Partials To Provide "Financing" For SDIRA - No UBIT/UDFI?

Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes

It constantly amazes me how little I know about real estate investing.  Every year I hear about investors doing creative things to avoid taxes that never would have occurred to me. 

Eddie Speed traveled to Austin to present at my WIN meeting this week and he described a technique that he teaches at his Note School.  I think I understood it, but some of my details in this post may be inaccurate.  Feel free to point out anything I am missing if you now of this technique.  

Scenario:

  • SDIRA purchases a note at a severe discount to face value
  • Manager of SDIRA breaks the note into two pieces: The first X payments and the remaining Y payments
  • SDIRA sells the first X payments to another passive investor to recoup the value of their initial investment in the note
  • Presumably the process is repeated thereafter

So this is really a proxy for "financing" and presumably avoids UDFI and possibly UBIT for lucrative investments held inside of a SDIRA.  If you used this technique with a SDIRA Roth I am assuming it would could be quite lucrative and provide for nice, tax-free profits.  

Any thoughts on this?  You'd have to buy the note at a big enough discount to later sell to another investor for a smaller discount to retain the remaining Y payments.  I'm not really sure how many payments one could retain and it would probably depend on the note, but it seems like this would be a good way to utilize SDIRA accounts and avoid UDFI.  I'm not really sure about the implications for UBIT, but if you made a business of this I am assuming that this tax may apply.  

1Reply
20 views

Most Popular Reply

Lender · Redmond, WA · Member since 2014 · 553 posts · 490 votes
11y

You can do this in an SDIRA no problem.  It's a simple cash purchase followed by a simple cash sale of a portion of the asset.  The thing you need to stay away from to avoid creating UDFI (which is subject to  UBTI) is using outside financing to acquire the asset or adding financing after the acquisition.

See this reply in the discussion

6 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Lender · Redmond, WA · Member since 2014 · 553 posts · 490 votes
    11y

    You can do this in an SDIRA no problem.  It's a simple cash purchase followed by a simple cash sale of a portion of the asset.  The thing you need to stay away from to avoid creating UDFI (which is subject to  UBTI) is using outside financing to acquire the asset or adding financing after the acquisition.

  • Investor · Kingston, WA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    Hi Bryan, 

    Yes we are doing this in our SDIRA currently with distressed notes we purchased and got re-performing. It's a great way to recapitalize our account to buy more notes and "rinse & repeat" in our Roth tax-free. Eddie puts out some pretty cool concepts, vetted by his own experience and his team of consultants. 

    Bob

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    @Bob Malecki

    Thanks for sharing.  How hard is it to find a buyer for the initial partial once you have it broken up?  How many payments are you generally left with on the end?

  • Investor · Kingston, WA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    A bunch of "that depends" items like current term remaining on the note and how many payments in the partial that are sold. I find my buyers via networking and relationships, a real estate-oriented person with a self directed IRA who is looking for a reasonable (5-12%) ROI would be a good candidate. They don't have to do any of the "heavy lifting" required to get a NPL to perform yet enjoy the benefits of it, albeit at less than we do, but not too shabby in this low interest economic cycle.

    Here is a post from last year that provides some good info: https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/70/topics/164046-partial-note-selling

    Bob

  • Justin WindhamPro Member
    Banker · Nationwide · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    Another great example of what can be done with self directed IRAs and 401ks. Thanks for sharing, everyone!

    Quite a few years back we had a client who was buying up properties in their Solo 401k and then selling those properties minus the mineral rights. They were able to get back their initial investments in the plan from the sale of the real estate and keep the mineral rights which ended up resulting in ongoing checks coming into the 401k from the energy company. It was really impressive.

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    11y

    Here's another good post on partials:

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/51/topics/155...

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.