Skip Recording CFD's?

Skip Recording CFD's?

Brittany P.Pro Member
Investor · Upper Marlboro, MD · Member since 2022 · 54 posts · 6 votes

Hi All,

I have a question that I'm sure will make me sound reckless to some of you experienced note investors. Here goes: I've just purchased my fifth contract-for-deed (CFD) and I'm now on a timeline where I save up and buy a new CFD every three months. Eventually I hope to cash flow where I'm making larger outright note purchases, but for now at my price point, smaller CFD's (around $15k UPB) are what I can afford.

Given that these are CFD's, I'm noticing that recording costs are a little heftier than just recording an assignment of mortgage. The transfer fees/taxes for the deed can get into the $400 - $500 range for each of these. So my question is: if I wanted to save on the recording costs, keep the deed for my records, proactively pay taxes as they're billed (would coordinate with the company I buy the CFD from), then work with the borrower to get the deed recorded under their name once they've paid off the contract--am I putting myself at risk? These contracts run from 3 - 5 years; is there a downside to skipping recording until deed is ready to go to the borrower, as long as I'm staying on top of taxes?

I look forward to hearing from the pros on this--thanks!

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Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
Moderator
Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
2y

@Brittany P.

1. Read your loan sale agreement. When we sell a contract for deed the buyer is obligated to record the deed to get it out of our name.

2. You may not be able to insure the property.

3. If the borrower defaults recording takes time so you would lose that time

4. Any fines or violations you may not get notified of or if the seller to you somehow put leverage on it or the borrower

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  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    2y

    @Brittany P.

    1. Read your loan sale agreement. When we sell a contract for deed the buyer is obligated to record the deed to get it out of our name.

    2. You may not be able to insure the property.

    3. If the borrower defaults recording takes time so you would lose that time

    4. Any fines or violations you may not get notified of or if the seller to you somehow put leverage on it or the borrower

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:

    @Brittany P.

    1. Read your loan sale agreement. When we sell a contract for deed the buyer is obligated to record the deed to get it out of our name.

    2. You may not be able to insure the property.

    3. If the borrower defaults recording takes time so you would lose that time

    4. Any fines or violations you may not get notified of or if the seller to you somehow put leverage on it or the borrower


    jumping over dollars to save pennies.. real estate is about recorded control. 
  • Brittany P.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · Upper Marlboro, MD · Member since 2022 · 54 posts · 6 votes
    2y

    We don’t mind the recording process—at the very least it’s a tax write off—but let me throw a few more angles out there that I hadn’t mentioned before and see what you and @Chris Seveney think: the CFD's we're purchasing are for unimproved land parcels, so I don't think there's an obligation to insure. Additionally, the contract requires that the deed be recorded in the borrower's name once the contract is paid in full, but it's silent as to whether we have to record when we purchase the seller's interest in the contract. Finally, in the event of default, as we work through the grace period we could get the deed recorded in our name before we sought a new buyer (if we couldn't get the current buyer back on track).

    Obviously I’m getting the sense no one here’s a fan of skipping recording, I’m just wondering if these additional aspects change the calculus for you at all. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Brittany P.:

    We don’t mind the recording process—at the very least it’s a tax write off—but let me throw a few more angles out there that I hadn’t mentioned before and see what you and @Chris Seveney think: the CFD's we're purchasing are for unimproved land parcels, so I don't think there's an obligation to insure. Additionally, the contract requires that the deed be recorded in the borrower's name once the contract is paid in full, but it's silent as to whether we have to record when we purchase the seller's interest in the contract. Finally, in the event of default, as we work through the grace period we could get the deed recorded in our name before we sought a new buyer (if we couldn't get the current buyer back on track).

    Obviously I’m getting the sense no one here’s a fan of skipping recording, I’m just wondering if these additional aspects change the calculus for you at all. 


    I understand the low value land plays in both owning selling CFD etc etc  No title insurance just quit claim.. its quite common in the Niche you are playing in.. the issue is if the orignal seller buggars the title somehow and you CFD buyer pays all their payments and now wants clear title and you cant deliver it because of this..  thats the risk.. your call.. I grew up in this bizz.. And to this day still do a ton of funding for land flippers but I dont deal in land that is generally under 25k and most are 50 to 200k purchase prices so I buy title insurance day one keep in mind we are all cash. And I have sold a few on contract but most re sell for cash.. And if I do sell on contract I do a full escrow with DT or Mortgage and note.. But its not like the old days when my dad started in the 60s where he sold these for 100.00 down 50 a month but did 500 of them a year :).. Last one we sold on contract was for 280k with half down.. Big difference.. But again if your dealing with low value and your OK if your title is buggared you just give the  buyer back all their money that probably works.
  • Specialist · Winter Springs, FL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 747 votes
    2y

    As Jay pointed out, if you don't record the deed, as far as the world at large is concerned, your seller still owns the property.  If (s)he has a judgment filed against them, it will probably have priority over your unrecorded interest.  If your seller files bankruptcy, the Trustee will probably seek to have your interest subordinated or invalidated.  What do you do if your house burns down or is destroyed in a storm, and you can't produce the deed?  What do you do if your seller decides his sale to you was so profitable (s)he just sells it again since your deed isn't of record?  If the 2nd buyer records his/her deed you're probably out of luck, particularly if they got a title insurance policy.

  • Brittany P.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · Upper Marlboro, MD · Member since 2022 · 54 posts · 6 votes
    2y

    Much thanks to you and @Jay Hinrichs. You raise some great considerations here.

  • Specialist · Winter Springs, FL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 747 votes
    2y

    You're very welcome.

  • Member since 2018 · 38 posts · 15 votes
    2y

    Each state can be a little different. However, it's usually best practice to record the deed but do not record the note itself (or contract in this case). The wet signed physical piece of paper is the actual collateral for this deal. 

    You could probably be fine simply keeping the deed in the seller's name for a short while. However, like others have mentioned, you will be in major trouble if the seller goes through a divorce, files for bankruptcy, or notices that you haven't recorded the deed and try to sell the property again. 

    Don't be penny wise and pound foolish.

  • Brittany P.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · Upper Marlboro, MD · Member since 2022 · 54 posts · 6 votes
    2y

    Yup, good points.  We've been purchasing from land flippers, so some of those wouldn't be concerns for these particular transactions, but definitely as we move up in the note investing world and start purchasing notes for actual houses, all that makes sense.

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