Opinion on NOT priming before painting?

Question

Opinions, please?

So I just tried out a new house-painter who bought the paint in the colors I needed, but I found out after he was done with the job that he only did SPOT priming over any drywall patches and other wall repairs.  He did NOT prime the whole surface first before painting, or use a combo paint-and-primer-in-one product, like Behr.

This was for a complete repaint INSIDE AND OUT for a house I’m selling, not renting, and the paint was NOT going over bare drywall (or a flat sheen covering a high gloss sheen); it was simply a color change between similar colors and sheens.

The bid he provided did NOT include the words “prime” or “primer” anywhere, but I thought my instructions and expectations were clear, and I assumed where the bid said “paint” that it would be a paint-and-primer combo product.  Since he went with a cheaper product, he made more profit for a lower-quality, shorter-lasting paint job.

So my questions for you are:

• No matter what surface is being painted, and even if you’re selling and not renting it, do you ALWAYS expect your painter to prime all surfaces first (versus just spot priming) … or do you only expect full surface priming when it’s more NECESSARY, like when going over brand-new drywall?
• To avoid miscommunication or deceit, what do you like to either have them write in their bid or put in a contract, that makes it crystal clear what your primer expectations are?
• And in any rooms that have wall stains and odor from kitchen grease or cigarette smoke, do you like to also specify in writing any extra steps you expect them to take BEFORE painting those areas?

I know a painter should be professional and knowledgeable about doing their job right, but I think this was more of a deceptive move for him to pocket more profit.

I APPRECIATE YOUR HELP, THANK YOU.

Lara Fobian

Wayne Brooks · Answer

Priming over previously painted drywall is not necessary at all....as long as the paint is sound and sufficiently cleaned.

The Whole purpose of priming is either to prevent a bare surface from absorbing the paint or to properly cover some glossy type surface so the paint adheres....unless you’re covering some type of stain/odor.

How do you avoid this miscommunication in the future.....simple, scope of work would say prime in whatever areas you specify.....but priming over previous paint is Not typical, nor necessary.

Matt M. · Answer

@Lara Fobian

@Jim K.

Ok here goes nothing.. quick background on me.. in business 16 years, painting and remodeling.

I don’t believe your painter ripped you off at all. I’m happy he at least spot primed patches, if his quote didn’t even mention primer at all. All my proposals are detailed, both to avoid the “hey you never did this” and so my clients know exactly what they are getting for their money.

Other than for major color changes, smoke, stains, new drywall etc. there is absolutely nothing wrong with only spot priming repairs. There is no reason to prime an entire wall because of a few nail holes.

I also don’t believe in the paint/primer in one products. And not a fan of Behr (sorry Jim).

Any other questions, I’d be happy to answer.

Theresa Harris · Answer

I've painted quite a few places and rarely prime before I paint.  I use primer if it is bare drywall or if the original colour was very dark compared to the new colour.   Even in the latter case, I often just do two coats of paint.  Coverage also depends on the quality of the paint-once I went over a bright red semi gloss with a lighter blue eggshell paint and for most areas, one coat was enough-which shocked me.

Lara Fobian · Answer

@Matt Michaelson

Valuable advice, thank you!  To answer your question, these were the cheaper products he chose (current Home Depot prices BEFORE any additional Paint ProRewards bulk discounts) … Outside, Behr Pro e600 Exterior Latex Paint in Satin ($105 for 4.84 gallons) and Glidden Premium Exterior Latex Paint in Satin ($125 for 5 gallons).  Inside, he used Behr Pro i300 Interior Latex Paint in Dead Flat ($89.98 for 4.84 gallons) and PPG Ultra-Hide Zero Interior Latex Paint in Semi-Gloss ($89.98 for 5 gallons).

To everyone else & Matt Michaelson …

Thanks so much for taking time to reply.  Others may add to this thread, but my CONCLUSIONS here are: Full primer is NOT the industry standard unless the customer specifies.  And it’s really NOT necessary except in special cases, like over new drywall or stains, going from a glossier sheen to a duller sheen, or before going from a darker color to a drastically lighter one.  Spot priming is fine in those cases if a smaller area.

And the paint-and-primer-in-one products may be more of a marketing gimmick; a primer-only product before paint may be best, but only when primer is needed.  So the painter likely wasn’t trying to screw me over after all.  I just need to be more specific in any written agreement, about what level of clean, prep, and prime I expect.

CJ M. · Answer

@Lara Fobian

The buyer will probably change the colors you just painted anyways.

Scott P. · Answer

1. No.  I don't always have it primed.

2. Yes.  I'd actually write in primer, spot prime, or no prime.  I prefer writing it and having them sign my document.  Or we sign each other's documents.  The only time I only sign their document is if I'm 100% confident in their reputation.

3. I would probably just write in to "clean, prep, and prime if necessary, according to the paint manufacturer's instructions."

I agree with most of the replies here.  I would just add that whatever it says on the side of the paint container is what the manuf recommends and is what the painter should most likely do.

Alex K. · Answer

@Lara Fobian always Prime. Pay a little extra if needed for a job well done. Usually the cheapest prices are that cheap for a reason.

Jared Hartley · Answer

@Lara Fobian. Priming is for binding and sealing bare or raw surfaces.  Sounds like he did what he should have.  Priming over painted surfaces is a moot point. Unless the surface is a factory finish or a baked on metal type finish. Then they would need to use a specific primer like a DTM primer, Wash primer, peel bond primer, metal etc.  spot priming is industry standard.

Matt M. · Answer

@Lara Fobian

What “cheaper product “ did he use to save money? There are plenty of $50-60/gal paint only products out there.

Jim K. · Answer

@Lara Fobian

Calling up help here...@Matt Michaelson, could you share your experience on this one?

Lara, I wouldn't be so quick to put down this dude. In my experience, paint + primer-in-one is the biggest lie in home improvement, a close second to one-coat-coverage.

My renovations are typically turning old, well-lived-in houses into hardened rentals. I have three go-to interior primers, all Kilz. Kilz Original (oil-based) is good for previously-finished wood and heavily-stained walls. Kilz2 Latex (water-based) is good for walls that have been cleaned and have only minor issues, Kilz Complete (oil-based) is my problem-solving super-stink primer.

But in turning properties that I've previously prepped and painted between tenants, I tend to use very little primer. I clean the walls with TSP and rinse with water, I use scouring pads to scrub walls near switches and in places the wall gets touched a lot, I spot-prime stained-areas, and I paint over the cleaned wall with no primer, exactly what your house-painter's done. This is for rentals where I need to be sure the paint lasts or I'll be back in there fixing the job for a tenant who would prefer not to look at me.

So here are my answers to your questions, with the understanding that I'm typically the handyman doing my own work:

1. No. I do not expect full-surface priming as a given.

2. Yes, if I hired someone to paint a house, I would be very exacting about my primer requirements until I knew them well. But especially if this is the kind of 90-year-property that I am typically renovating, I would be much more exacting about my surface preparation requirements.

3. So finally yes, I would make my surface preparation instructions crystal clear, until I knew them well and they knew me well enough to know what my expectations were.

I don't think this guy actively deceived you, Lara, especially since you're selling the house and in the minds of most sellers, paint only has to last a few years, enough so that they are off the hook when it fails. I think you have certain expectations about the need for surface priming that don't hold up from a hands-on perspective. I would certainly insist on TSP cleaning before painting more than I would insist on primer.

As I've stated before in previous posts, I tend to use Behr Ultra in my renovations. The fact that it says paint+primer on the label means nothing to me. I get it because I can get it pretty cheaply and it handles my (rather low) expectations for painting rental property walls and ceilings a white, flat color that doesn't fade. I use Glidden Premium for my satin bathroom and kitchen paint and the best water-based enamel I can buy for my semigloss trim paint, usually a Sherwin-Williams product.

If Matt comments on this, and he has a lot more professional experience than I do, I'm sure he'll give more targeted advice that you should prefer to mine.

Opinion on NOT priming before painting?

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