Should I be worried about this foundation???

[Jared Baker]

Looked at a property for a potential BRRRR. Price is 170k with ARV at 240k. only thing here that is really concerning is the block basement. Looks like this might be an issue or might be a simple fix. Also I've heard this could be a couple thousand to get repaired or tens of thousands, so some insight there would be helpful. Its located in the Menomonee Falls area if anyone is familiar with the area.

This house was built in the 1960's and I was told when they built them, they backfilled with clay which overtime started to settle and push the block walls in.  The solution to that was providing bracing, but I'm not sure how I feel about this being a long term fix.  And how would this affect resale value.  I feel like this type of thing will really put a dent in that.

[Account Closed]

The explanations in this thread are only part right, and in some cases dead wrong. I have become something of an expert in this stuff. I am now an expert because I had the same problem, had problems with my contractor, and during the fight with my contractor, learned every little thing there is to know about this stuff.

A good resource is WAFRP - http://www.wafrp.com/

You have two separate problems, but they are interlinked sometimes.

The first is the block construction. Blocks are hollow and have hundreds (thousands?) of mortar joints. These break down over time or from movement and then allow water to get through, and those blocks will actually fill up with water. That white stuff that looks like mold is actually called effervescence, which is the block sort of disintegrating from the moisture content. It is a clear sign your blocks are filling up with water.

There are three things to be done, sometimes you have to do all three, but not always. For starters the obvious is appropriate grade from the house and installing downspouts at least 4' out 8' is best. When the blocks fill up, it is because your drain tile has failed. Drain tile is installed on the exterior and interior next to and through the footings. The water from rain and snow, as well as ground water, is diverted through the drain tile (its just a pipe system) into the sump crock and pumped out with the sump pump. When your blocks fill up, your drain tile is usually failed (broken or blocked). The best fix is to excavate the exterior and interior tile and replace it - not cheap - labor intensive. An option here is to only fix the interior drain tile. What they do is bust out the floor about 1' from the wall, in all affected areas (usually best to do the whole thing, but not always necessary). Then they dig out the old stone and tile, and replace it. Then they drill relief holes in each and every block core, which allows the water that comes in to drain. Then those holes have a membrane placed over them, allowing the water to come through the block and drain under the floor into the replaced interior tile. Then the pour concrete over the membrane. This fix is actually fantastic, and it would actually be great to build new like this when using block, but of course they never do.

The second problem you have is clay back-fill. It was not until the 90's that code required stone back-fill, so sometimes you have somewhat new foundations that have the same problem. You never know with clay, you could have one house with a problem and the one next door does not have a problem. The Milwaukee area is definitely plagued with clay. What happens is that clay is 1) very absorbent 2) very expansive when frozen. Most people believe the clay absorbs water from above (rain and snow), but what really happens is clay acts like a vacuum when it freezes, and pulls up ground water from below as it freezes. Then it expands, and of course ice is very powerful, and in the case of a hollow basement lined with blocks with thousands of mortar joints (as opposed to a poured wall or very thick wall) the blocks give way. (You can still have the problem with thick or poured walls too, just not as common, block is the weakest.)

If the blocks have not given way too much (1 inch is about the standard tolerance) then they can be braced from the inside and that will stop further movement. If the blocks are too far gone, the wall must be pushed back in place, which of course requires exterior excavation - not cheap. The good thing is, when exterior excavation does happen, it's an opportunity to fix the exterior drain tile and back-fill the space with stone, not dirt. The reason it is code to use stone, is because stone has zero absorption or expansion properties. They fill it above the frost line, but below the grow line (about 1-2 feet to grade), then cover the stone with landscape fabric, and finally fill that last bit with dirt, just enough to grow some grass or flowers.

What you need to do on each house all depends on the type of problems and the severity of the problems. Expect a minimum of $50 per linear foot just to knock out the interior slab and install block drains, new drain tile, membrane and new slab. Expect about $200 for each metal brace on top of that. For the the whole enchilada, excavating the exterior and bracing the interior, expect $250 a linear foot, and that is only if the interior drain tile is not also ruined, which in that case they would excavate the interior as well!!!

Finally, basement contractors are notorious for ripping people off. So much so, the State of Wisconsin has special statutes governing the trade!!! That does not stop people from getting ripped off. Impossible to tell based on price if you are getting ripped of or not (meaning they don't do the work they charge you for).

I wish I had a reference for you. I used a company called Basement Repair Specialists and cannot recommend them, even though they came with good references. I battled them the entire way, with all sorts of issues, and to this day am not convinced they did it right. The owner was very difficult to work with once problems arose, and I am sure he would say the same about me (and truly)! I can say this, the whole thing almost gave me a heart attack and I was very close to a lawsuit. I can say they were the cheapest by far, and I would not say they are rip-off artists, simply a bit incompetent in some regards. Tough to find good help sometimes I guess. It did finally pass inspection and the repair did appear to be successful. Who knows, maybe they got their act together, or maybe my job was just one of those that went south.

As far as valuation and marketability - (I am an appraiser too) - these sort of fixes are not yet wholly recognized in the market. While it is true the fix is permanent and frankly, the foundation will be better than it ever was, people are not yet so familiar with the fix as to recognize that. People who know will be happy to see it (they know it's been addressed), while people who do not know might be frightened by the obvious that an issue once existed. As far as value, foundations add no value when fixed, but certainly detract from value when in need of repair.