What is this electrical panel?

Question

Hi!

We are looking at buying our second SF buy and hold rental property and have come across an electrical panel we haven’t seen before.  My questions are... what is it? Does this mean the whole house would have to be rewired? The amps and voltage concern me too.  Any insight would be much appreciated!

Terrell Garren · Answer

@Mark Gauger is right.  Unless the circuitry is overloaded, a fuse panel is safe.  Changing a blown fuse is just not as convenient as flipping a breaker.  If either blows or flips often, then you have a problem to solve. I would save that $2000.

Mark Gauger · Answer

It's a fuse panel. If you want to upgrade to a modern 100A to 200A breaker box, rough estimate would be in the $1500 to $2500 range. The wiring is most likely fine.

Pat L. · Answer

A couple of my favorites

Robert S. · Answer

@Stephanie Grady Good day, I’m a licensed electrical contractor in NJ and would be glad to help you out anyway I can.  First off, this is an electric panel that uses fuses to protect the circuits in it instead of using circuit breakers, which is what you are accustomed to.  The differences between the two are as follows, a circuit breaker functions like a switch, each time the circuit it protects experiences an overload situation(too many appliances using the circuit simultaneously) the circuit breaker automatically switches to the tripped (off) position.  When a fuse experiences an overload situation, it shuts off completely and needs to be replaced with a new one.

Also, Installation is different as well, let’s say a circuit trips because a tenant keeps putting too many appliances on it.  If your property has a panel that uses circuit breakers, the entire panel cover needs to be removed, this exposes a lot of live electric parts, and the tenant has to remove the existing circuit circuit breaker, disconnect a wire, and then reconnect the wire to a larger circuit breaker and then install that circuit breaker.  This is kind of a pain to do  and unsafe for the inexperienced, however if a tenant wishes to upsize a fuse that keeps blowing, they just unscrew the fuse and install a larger one.

Now, please note, this practice is highly illegal because circuit breakers and fuses are sized based the size of wires they protect.  If a tenant were to upsize the fuses, it is a major fire hazard because the wires can not handle the extra amps and now the fuse will not protect the wires anymore.  Worst part, you as a landlord would never know a tenant did this, unless you kept a log of your electric panel schedule, and I have yet to find a landlord who does that.

If I had an electric panel that uses fuses in a property where a tenant had access to it, I would change it out to a panel that uses circuit breakers.

If I failed to address any of your concerns, or any of this post was confusing, please contact me via DM and I can provide further clarification.  Best of luck.

Jim K. · Answer

Nobody's mentioned pennies yet! A common practice among those too cheap or lazy or stupid to swap out a blown fuse is to put a penny in the hole and partially screw the blown fuse back in. The penny restores the circuit to operation but removes all circuit overload protection and is therefore a major safety hazard. In a rental situation, this can be extraordinarily bad news for the LL.

Johann Jells · Answer

I wouldn't be surprised if Square D has a replacement breaker panel and cover upgrade that could be swapped into that box. In that case it would be less than an hour of work.

Pat L. · Answer

You need to replace that antique. Our Ins carrier will not allow them.

I would also check for any non-grounded outlets to determine any re-wiring issues. If the original incoming service wire is only for 60amps you will need to replace that to the meter & then up to the weather-head & that wiring is heavier & the run can be expensive if you need to include conduit.

A new panel will depend on the demand & for the number of circuits, along with double poles for central a/c, electric stove or electric double oven plus stove top, electric dryer & maybe the feed to a garage sub-panel etc. A good sized 100amp panel with tandem breaker capability should be fine.

Another expense will be the cost of AFCI breakers if your town code requires them on all NEW circuits. Also do your homework on which circuits MUST be 20amp/12ga, which circuits MUST be GFI & which circuits MUST be dedicated such as an above the stove micro-wave, dishwasher etc.

I do my own swap outs (with permits & subsequent inspections) so costs are basically materials & my time. A fellow investor/quasi-flipper just got shut down (it's been 2 months) because of code violations. He had his handyman rewire some circuits with the wrong ga wire & threw in new outlets on non-grounded circuits. Now they have to tear out some parts of the new walls & tiled backsplash.

Clifford Paul · Answer

wow haven't seen one of those in years. You shouldn't have to update wiring unless there is an issue. I would get a few quotes to replace the box with a new one.

Jim K. · Answer

Josh, I recently bought a property with two fuseboxes, a main and a sub, and original BX wiring running from the sub. I think the sub was the original box. It's a high-quality 3/2/1 foursquare built in 1935, I think, during the Great Depression. Very unusual.

Julie N. · Answer

@Stephanie Grady fuses. Yes time to upgrade

What is this electrical panel?

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