Is a competent architect hard to come by ? Do they add value?

Question

I am getting out if the Marine Corps this summer. As a result of my service, I have the ability to use the Post 9/11 G.I. bill to go to school for free. I love things that are free, so I decided to apply to a Masters of Architecture program. I am a new investor with one SFR, and my ultimate goal in RE is to buy and hold multifamily apartments.

I plan to use an architecture degree in my business, using the BRRRR strategy or fliping houses if the opportunity presents itself. Having a real estate and architecture license can save me a lot of money in the beginning. I know it is hard to find competent and efficient property managers and contractors, and these individuals can make or break an investor and an individual deal. I am curious to know how hard (or easy) it is to find a competent and efficient architect? And is the value of a good architect equivalent to a good property manager or contractor (if that makes sense)?

I assume this question is more relevant to flippers and developers. But I would appreciate anyone's thoughts or input.

Nik Moushon · Answer

Another architect here, and I'm not trying to discourage you but to give you a reality check about becoming an architect through a couple pointed statements.

1 - Architecture, as a regular 8-5 job, is not going to make you wealthy 90% of the time. This is not a high paid profession. Not saying you can't make a good living but you wont walk out of college making six figures or even close to it. People who stick around in the profession do it for the love of the craft. Not because they will get rich doing so.

2 - The amount of hours in schooling, internships and post grad test taking is similar with being a lawyer or a doctor. As Seth mentioned the biggest, and actually hardest IMO, is the licensure test taking. The new exam, just came out this last year, is a total of 6 test. The average time it take a person to become licensed after graduating is 7 years. So the 5-6 years of schooling plus the avg 7 years of working in the profession. I know several people that become licensed with in a couple years of graduating. So if you are very determined and a good test taker, with a LOT of luck via what questions you get on the exams, you could look to be licensed in about 9-10 years from NOW.

3 - Like most professions you will walk out of school thinking you could design anything and within a couple months of being in an actual office you will feel like you know a fraction of what you thought you did. One of my personal issues with my profession is schooling is still taught very much like an arts degree in the since of it being very subjective to the professors and what styles are being taught. Unlike being a doctor or lawyer where facts are facts. This profession still relies heavily on getting real world experience after school. This is why the avg of 7 years after school to pass an exam. Even the exams are based of stuff you never learn in school. I think both the the schooling and testing need some major over hauls, and there are some good changes that have happened, but its still a product of the past that has not caught up to today.

4 - Its an unfortunate fact but the vast majority of the average homes are not designed by architects today. A lot of laws do not require architects for SFH under a certain size or if you are under a certain scope of work. So unless your flipping & BRRRR strategies involve large SFH a arch degree is not going to give you much of an upper hand. You'll have a bit more respect that comes with your title and you will know things that most builder dont but its not about how a house is built. What our degree, and knowledge, really brings to the table is how to handle codes and how to make amazing designs with those incredible restrictions. This leads me to my last point.

5 - Where an architect knowledge and value come to play and are a true value to a project are in commercial building projects. Now I don't just mean strip malls and office parks. Any building with over 4 units or more the 2 stories tall in considered a commercial building. Large development projects that have a variety of uses in them require an architect. Don't forget that SFH do require an architect at a certain size. So even subdivision that have large homes, ~2000+ sf, are going to need architecture seal on them. These are the types of projects and buildings where architects bring a great value to a REI team. Our knowledge and value really compound greatly with the size of the project. Aside from custom homes it has just become to economical to just hire a builder and skip the architect. Its sad and I think our culture suffers from it but its today's reality.

It might sound like I'm pushing you away from architecture but I'm not. I'm just giving you a hard dose of reality. My freshman class had 80+ students in it. Those that lasted all 5.5 years to get our masters degree....18. This is not an easy schooling process and i would hate for you to waste your GI Bill on a profession you end up hating. You truly have to LOVE architecture to really want to stay in it. I love what I do. I plan on using my skills and knowledge to get into developing, thats what I've always wanted to do. But I also didn't pick my degree to compliment REI. I picked it because I liked it and chose it to be my 8-5 job with REI eventually becoming an interest and in the future I will transition to that being my main 8-5 job with my degree becoming the complementary bonus (along with the years of knowledge I will have gained).

Seth Holmen · Answer

Thanks for your service! Architecture is a great career. I love being an architect and wouldn't change a thing about my career choices. I have found it to be very useful in the investing world. It can give a little bit of that unfair advantage on certain projects. However, if you are focusing on flix / flip BRRRR properties you may be better off just focusing on the business and creating a good partnership with other architects / contractors. Becoming an architect is no short journey. After your Masters Degree you need to intern for about 3 years under a licensed architect and then take 5 exams (about an additional year or more processes) So at best, if you started now with schooling, you are about 5 years out from holding a license.

Since I'm in the architecture / investment world I tend to work closely with other like minded architects. I do know a fair amount of architects that know how to swing a hammer and get their hands dirty. We definitely need more of them though and I would encourage you to start the journey if you have the passion!

Jared W Smith · Answer

I think @Nik Mouton has laid things out rather well explaining the profession and schooling, probably in more detail than I would have but some of his words almost exactly mirror my schooling/experience.

I can add, being an architect does help in investing based on analyzing and researching properties knowing the building code, zoning and construction experience, however this comes into play being an Architect FIRST, and investor AFTER. I did not go into this profession with investing in mind. But stumbled into it after. I wouldn't go into Architect for the aforementioned reasons as a means to have a leg up. Better to just partner with a good architect, adding them to your team. Of course this is only if you are not fully into being an Architect. It's a love hate relationship. As Nik said, I love it and wouldn't change it for anything. @Yusef Griffin

Nik Moushon · Answer

There are a bunch of different "fields" in architecture that you would think require a separate degree or at least a specialty degree but they don't. I can build a tiny house, a giant hospital, a massive sky scrapper or a shopping mall all with the same degree and license. The difference between those "fields" is experience and expertise. With this come different types of firms and their sizes. I prefer a smaller office. Even though this means I'll never build a sky scraper but it also mean I'll never become a CAD/Revit monkey and get pigeon holed doing only stair details for 2 years. A bit of an extreme but its a possibility. What I'm getting at is you will need to figure out what "kind" of architecture you want to do because its not all the same. You'll love some and hate others. You don't need to figure this out now, as I'm sure in school your knowledge will grow and so will your tastes. But keep in mind if you want to aim for a certain heading its best to start now. Not 5 years after you graduate.

Tyron McDaniel · Answer

I'm not an architect but I really wish I was simply because I love design... but my best advice is to read what NIK said... Mannn he laid it ALL out, so I will end my comment there! What Nik said!

Jim Adrian · Answer

@Nik Moushon hit the nail on the head here! Schooling is one of the most intense degrees out there. If you like sleep then I would pass on this field. I would be buildings models and presentations boards till 2am or 3am 5 days a week. If you have a family this is a No Go on schooling, speaking from experience of a single parent at the time. It was rough and I missed out on a lot.

I would focus on the construction management or something like that if you want to flip full time. Business, accounting, or marketing classes are ones I wish I had taken to help out in general.

I can tell you large projects are cool but challenges and headaches are just as big too. The key is seeing variety and not getting burned out. Ive done the skyscraper project for 3 years straight to the utility pump house that takes 2 weeks.

Yusef Griffin · Answer

@Seth Holmen @Nik Moushon @Jared W Smith

Gentleman, I appreciate your responses and all of the input. That is great REAL information, that would have been hard to find elsewhere. I was interested in architecture before thinking about implementing it in my real estate business. I'm fine with it being the 8-5 job, I feel like there is a lot of opportunity out there, especially out of the country. I was in the UAE this year, and looking at all of the development out there sparked my interest.

I want real estate to be passive, so my niche is buy and hold. I was only going to be doing flips as an additional source of income, but since being an architect is more time intensive than I thought, it doesn't effect my plan at all. I think being apart of building buildings like the Burj Khalifa, JW Mariott Marquis in Dubai, and the Burj Al Arab Jumeirah would be amazing. I know I'm getting a little ahead of myself, but I was just wondering if an architecture was really valued by RE investors. You guys have answered my question and then some. I appreciate you all!! And @Nik Moushon, I will definitely read that book! Thanks!!

Nik Moushon · Answer

@Yusef Griffin

If you are still interested and want to learn more about being an architect/developer I would suggest reading this book:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/087420383X/?coliid=I1GZ3F1YBHV5Z6&colid=2ZCE9EMQNRM96&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

I'm about 90% of the way through it and its a great read. Most of it is straight up about just developing in general and not architecture specific, which is very interesting in its own right, but there are two chapters in the middle that are specific to the developer/architect relationship. I knew the general idea of how this relationship worked, because I use to work for a large developer, but this book goes in to details very very well. Very eye opening for us architects. (@Jared W Smith @Seth Holmen great read if you're interested and have the free time)

Kurt West · Answer

@Yusef GriffinWhat did you end up doing as a career choice?

Donald S. · Answer

As a non-Architect I can tell you that the architect we used on the flip we're doing right now definitely added value to our project. He took the rough idea I had and changed it around to work much better. The place isn't finished yet, but everyone that's been through it loves the layout and comments on how ingenious it is, and that's because of our architects changes.

Is a competent architect hard to come by ? Do they add value?

Is a competent architect hard to come by ? Do they add value?

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