Is my Handyman/Contractor ripping me off? or is it Fair?

Is my Handyman/Contractor ripping me off? or is it Fair?

Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 717 posts · 50 votes

Hello all. I've hired a contractor/handyman who has his own crew working. He does not have a license and insurance, but I've worked with him on smaller projects and he is a nice guy. Here's the scope of work he is doing and he is charging $14,000 just for labor and he pays for garbage removal. This is approximately 1,600 sq ft. I provide materials. Thanks in advance for taking time to read this through.

Here it is:

EXTERIOR:
1. Replace Window Shutters
2. Paint Exterior of Garage
3. Repair Concrete Steps going into the Kitchen
4. Landscape whole backyard as discussed. Remove trees, cleaning up the backyard landscaping with fresh landscaping in the back yard (i.e. adding new mulch, shrubs, and removing trees not wanted by client)
5. Add new landscaping around whole house (i.e. adding rocks, removing old shrubs, adding new shrubs/flowers, adding new border trim around landscaping)
6. Remove/Install Garage Door including garage door mechanical unit
7. Remove Fireplace ducting
8. Repair Roof and Soffit from removal of Fireplace ducting
9. Install Patio in the back of the house; cement or stone depending on clients preference (10x22 feet)
10. Power wash and stain/seal deck
11. On the Garage, replace several pieces of rotted siding
12. Install new window on Garage
13. Paint brick to white on the backside of the house
14. Add new light fixture by front door and side door
15. Take off house numbers on the top of garage
16. Replace/repair trim around garage
17. Paint Trim around garage
18. Remove/replace door going into garage
19. Cut a part of the tree touching the deck
20. Remove/Cap gas Grill in backyard
21. Replace/Repair broken fence
22. Repair siding/trim around new doors (i.e. Exterior Doors, Sliding Glass Door)
23. Remove Satellite Dish

INTERIOR:
1. Lower level Bathroom – Demolish/gut whole bathroom; Install new Drywall & Plywood; New Shower Surround/Tile; New Tile on floor; New trim/molding and new door; Remove/install toilet, vanity, mirror, light fixture, closet (if needed), and accessories (towel hangers, etc)
2. Top level Bathroom – Demolish/gut whole bathroom; Install new tile on walls; Install new tile on floor; Install new window; Install vanity, toilet, mirror, light fixture and accessories (i.e. towel hangers, etc.)
3. Repair holes throughout holes in drywall throughout whole house
4. Remove/Install new doors and closet doors throughout whole house
5. Install new exterior door and window in the Kitchen
6. Remove and install new ceiling fans and light fixtures throughout whole house
7. Repair/Install new vinyl or linoleum flooring in laundry/furnace room
8. Replace/Repair ceiling in furnace room
9. Remove/Install new trim throughout whole house
10. Paint the whole interior of the house including: trim, doors, ceiling
11. Install carpet in the living room, lower level bedroom, hallways, basement; including the top of the half walls
12. Level kitchen floors; gut floors and add new plywood
13. Install tile on kitchen floor
14. Remove/Install kitchen cabinets
15. Remove/Install new appliances (i.e. refrigerator, stove, microwave, dishwasher)
16. Install faucets throughout house
17. Patch ceilings where needed including basement, laundry room
18. Remove/Install new door going to the deck
19. Remove/Install new wood railings on upper and lower level stairways
20. Remove door going out of the kitchen
21. Install new shelving throughout closets
22. Install new sliding glass door
23. Repair siding/paint/trim around opening of sliding glass door
24. Install new drywall and patch drywall in basement as needed
25. Install new recessed lighting in basement depending on current placement of electrical receptacles
26. Remove/Install new electrical sockets and face plates
27. Install tile apron around front door in living room
28. Sand and refinish/stain two bedrooms with polyurethane

Thank you again, appreciate it.

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Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
15y

Full gut on two baths and the kitchen, landscape back yard, full interior paint and numerous smaller items? Seems like a reasonable estimate to me. Hard to say from here, though.

I also think I'd want someone licensed and insured for a job like this. This looks like permit work, especially the baths and kitchen, and you won't get permits without a license.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    15y

    Without going through everything in detail, doesn't seem too unreasonable to me...though I'd certainly want someone with insurance to be doing many of those tasks...

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 717 posts · 50 votes
    15y

    Thanks J, would you say it's a good deal? What kind of details?

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    15y

    Without seeing the house, going through each item in detail, and knowing the quality of work, it's hard to tell if it's a good deal or not.

    Personally, from first glance, I'd probably be paying more than this for that same scope of work...but then again, all my guys are insured, the quality is top-notch and the work would be done in a week and a half, so that's part of what I'd be paying for as well...

  • Real Estate Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2011 · 119 posts · 59 votes
    15y

    I understand some GCs charge around $50 per man hour for labor, do you think it'll take 280 man hours to complete this job?

  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    15y

    Full gut on two baths and the kitchen, landscape back yard, full interior paint and numerous smaller items? Seems like a reasonable estimate to me. Hard to say from here, though.

    I also think I'd want someone licensed and insured for a job like this. This looks like permit work, especially the baths and kitchen, and you won't get permits without a license.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Jim Stardust:
    I understand some GCs charge around $50 per man hour for labor, do you think it'll take 280 man hours to complete this job?

    I imagine if there is one person doing all this work, it could easily take more than 280 hours...in fact, I could imagine it taking one person double that...

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 717 posts · 50 votes
    15y

    He has his own crew and works with at least 2-3 people a day for 10 hours per day +.

    Problem: I'm new to this, and he made it sound like it could take him 4-5 weeks to do the job because it seemed like a lot of work. On our contract we both agreed that he would pay or I would pay $50 per day for being finished early or late. He is in his 1 1/2 week and he is more than halfway done. Am I screwed here? Also the problem is he kept mentioning small problems and wanted extra days.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    15y

    I assume you agreed to pay extra for finishing early because it was worth the extra cost to you? If you didn't want to pay extra for finishing early, why did you agree to it?

    Btw, with 3-4 skilled people and 10 hours per day, I would expect this to take about 3 weeks, so it sounds like he's pretty much on-schedule...

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 717 posts · 50 votes
    15y

    Right J, but 4 weeks ended up being 5 weeks and 4 extra days. So, 24 days total. The reason being, but in the beginning while during demo he kept on mentioning small problems and asked for extra days. He is a nice guy so I gave him the days. I'm starting to think he had different plan in mind...

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    15y

    Yup, it sounds like he was adding days so that he could make a few extra bucks by finishing early...

    I would suggest to him that since it turns out he didn't need the extra days after-all, that he "give them back" and you attach the $50 payment to the original schedule. If he refuses, then at least you know what kind of person you're dealing with in the future...

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 717 posts · 50 votes
    15y

    Thanks J. Your advice helps.

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    Just out of curiosity did you shop around to others who were licensed and insured, and if so how did they compare on pricing?

  • Property Manager · Chicago · Member since 2008 · 4 posts · 1 vote
    15y

    Hi flip,you are setting yourself up for a huge financial loss or lawsuit.Cutting corners with a contractor that does not have
    a license, no insurance,and i am sure does not get permits
    is asking for it.personal injuries,stop work orders,lawsuits,to
    only name a few.You know, it does not make good business
    sense,you want someone to ok this method and in your heart
    of hearts you know its wrong.Integrity,honesty,and professionalism,are the pillars of the foundation of your business.Please, :cry: do not hurt yourself.......Charles

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 717 posts · 50 votes
    15y

    Hi Tim, yes I did for other smaller projects and they came in very high. Thanks Charles, I appreciate you insight. Yes, you are right about the insurance issue. As far as the permits, the city I am working in said that as long as nothing is moved then we don't need a permit. We are putting in a sliding glass door so we got the permit. They said if we are changing sinks, light fixtures etc then we would not need a permit. What else in the scope of work looks like we need a permit?

    Thanks.

  • Wholesaler · Lincoln, NE · Member since 2011 · 17 posts · 2 votes
    15y

    Flip, I didn't go over your detailed scope of work list. But I would simply call in to the building and safety dept. or permits office and go over your list with them and ask them what permits you need. You should get their name, and note the time and date of phone call along with your notes and place it in your file for that property. That way you will know for future projects which items need permits and which don't. Additionally, if someone were to stop by and ask why you didn't get a permit for something you will have your notes, and the name of the person you spoke as to why you did not get a permit.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Louisville, KY · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    Flip,

    You are certainly not getting screwed on the pricing. Your negative attitude about this deal doesn't seem warranted. If he is a good guy and he is doing good work, you are way ahead of the game.
    Did you get outnegotiated on the extra days? Maybe, but what do you expect? Stuff happens during any job and this is pretty good sized so he is going to build in some extra. At $50 a day, he is not getting rich off this extra fee. He probably just wants to make sure he doesn't pay.
    There is value to him getting done early so pay the money and be happy if he gets done early.
    And by the way, you have no clue if he is "halfway done". Finished with half the items doesn't mean halfway done. I don't know how you could possibly gauge "halfway done" with any accuracy. Little details at the end can take a lot of time.

  • Contractor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2008 · 978 posts · 985 votes
    15y

    I didn't go too far into the details for your takeoff, but actually... to me, the price seems plenty fair. Maybe even a bit too fair - as in, watch his work.

    Bear in mind that's just the builder I am talking. I don't generally like to see one guy with one crew doing 100% of the work... it means you have non-specialists doing work that you could have a specialist do. That doesn't sit real well with me... I like specialists.

    As for whether or not the guy is half done... if this is your first rodeo, or maybe your biggest bull, it's easy to think that the work is further along than it really is. Generally speaking, the last 10% of the work is going to take as long as the 30% that came before it. Finish work is slow and generally pretty arduous.

  • Full-Time Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    my area may be different than yours (it seems i have to pull a permit for anything these days), but that being said:

    replacing toilets, showers, sinks, vanities, cabinets, windows, exterior doors, electrical sockets, switches....these are all things i'd have to put on my permit..if you're gutting bathrooms, i would think you need a permit for that..when i gutted a bathroom, it required electrical permit for the wiring and moving of lights, plumbing, and mechanical permit to vent the exhaust fan...anytime i open up drywall, i also have to pull a building permit, like if you're gutting a bathroom...you really explained this whole list to the county/city, and they said ok??

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 717 posts · 50 votes
    15y

    I've explained to them that I am remodeling a home and we are removing old toilets, sinks, light fixtures etc. And both inspectors said that only if we are moving a sink from a location to a different location or moving walls etc is when we would need to pull a permit ex. sliding glass door. I didn't believe it as well so I verified with both people at the county. Thanks.

  • Full-Time Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    that is amazing....for my apartments i have to pull a permit for new carpet...now that's commercial and a different ballgame, but it shows the extent that my county has gone to....it's gotten crazy here...did they know it was your intent to flip?? sometimes, they're more lenient on owner occupied homeowners than investors..

  • Real Estate Investor · detroit, MI · Member since 2011 · 6 posts · 1 vote
    15y

    depending on how bad the job is we get it done way cheaper we can have a whole house rehabbed 2100sqft for only 3500 and we buy the supply's and we hire them one at a time and make them a group at times we have been doing it this cheap for some time now

  • Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 717 posts · 50 votes
    15y

    Thank you for all the advices.

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Ocala, FL · Member since 2009 · 255 posts · 65 votes
    15y

    My only concern about giving an incentive to finish early is they might rush the task and cut corners. Very cool in theory though

    That said, my projects always take a lot longer than I think they should. My wife claims that i would only be happy with the speed that Elizabeth Montgomery works.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Chad Pisarski:
    ...we can have a whole house rehabbed 2100sqft for only 3500...

    Not sure what your definition of "whole house rehabbed" is, but in my experience, doing a full rehab on a 2100 sf house will take about 600 hours, which means you're either paying less than minimum wage or your contractors are cutting a LOT of corners (or both)...either way, doesn't seem like a recipe for long-term success in this business...

    Just my personal opinion...

  • Full-Time Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    I was going to ignore that j.... Either a typo, someone who is uninformed and trying to win a pissing contest, or someone who clearly has a different definition of rehab than I do. :)

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