How do you fit a half bath in a narrow row house?

How do you fit a half bath in a narrow row house?

Investor · Stafford, VA · Member since 2014 · 45 posts · 12 votes

Hello BP,

I have been looking at investing in North Philadelphia (Fishtown, Port Richmond, etc) and one thing I quickly learned is that most of these older row houses do not have a half bath on the first floor. I also see that a majority of these houses fit in two categories:  

a)the stairs to the second floor are against one of the long walls near the front door

or b) the stairs stick out from the wall perpendicular separating the living room space from the rest of the house (kitchen, dining room). These homes and lot are usually within 14 to 15 ft wide and 50 to 60 ft long. 

Did not find much on BP about the subject, so figured I'd start a discussion on it. Where and how would you add the half bath in the first floor in these style homes? 

- What if this was a complete gut and you could have a clean slate, where would you add it? 

- What if this is a small remodel and you are trying to keep costs down, while still getting that half bath in?

- What other variables or specifics would you need to be able to give a good answer?

Here are one of the examples I've found that I like the most if the layout of the house allows for it:

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Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 745 votes
8y

Is there room under the stairs?  In the past I have seen some older homes where the toilet is set to the low side of the stairs and the sink to the back near the high side of the stairs with a door to the half bath coming out perpendicular to the stairs.

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  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 745 votes
    8y

    Is there room under the stairs?  In the past I have seen some older homes where the toilet is set to the low side of the stairs and the sink to the back near the high side of the stairs with a door to the half bath coming out perpendicular to the stairs.

  • Contractor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Under stairs and reduce storage room under stairs.
  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2010 · 739 posts · 372 votes
    8y

    @Mauricio Botero

    Are you gutting it?  

    Where’s the property located?   I live in the areas you’re investing in

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2010 · 739 posts · 372 votes
    8y

    @Manolo D. @Bart H.

    Not seeing how that would work

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 745 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Chris Purcell:

    @Manolo D. @Bart H.

    Not seeing how that would work

     Something like this:

  • Investor · Stafford, VA · Member since 2014 · 45 posts · 12 votes
    8y

    @Bart H. Let's say yes, there is room under the stairs. I've seen very few examples of that, but do like the idea. Although, I do not think I like the idea of the airplane-sized bathroom for 2017. I'm all about future proofing my rental properties.

    @Chris Purcell This was a theoretical question. But in my case, I am looking for properties that would be gutted for an almost-new construction result. Looking in Fishtown, Northern Liberties, Kensington, Port Richmond/Richmond.

    @Manolo D. Thanks! 

  • Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 2 posts · 2 votes
    8y

    You put it where the side window is.. build out into the yard,,, that is most people have placed it in Philly row homes. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    I would definitely talk with a contractor. He'll likely make a recommendation once he sees where the pipes/plumbing are to keep costs down as well. 

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2010 · 739 posts · 372 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Bart H.:
    Originally posted by @Chris Purcell:

    @Manolo D. @Bart H.

    Not seeing how that would work

     Something like this:

    I’m actually doing a rehab right now where I need this layout.  Thank you sir!!

    Is there a minimum height above that toilet for code purposes?

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2010 · 739 posts · 372 votes
    8y

    @Mauricio Botero

    New and “almost new” are night and day down here.  New construction down here is absurdly priced, and there’s a huge difference in the comps

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 745 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Chris Purcell:
    Originally posted by @Bart H.:
    Originally posted by @Chris Purcell:

    @Manolo D. @Bart H.

    Not seeing how that would work

     Something like this:

    I’m actually doing a rehab right now where I need this layout.  Thank you sir!!

    Is there a minimum height above that toilet for code purposes?

    I hope I was able to help.

    I have no idea what is required height for code.  I suspect that it will vary from city to city.  I just thought of a possible half bath solution for the OP.  Let me know how it goes.

  • Title Representative · Cherry Hill, NJ · Member since 2015 · 48 posts · 31 votes
    8y
    I grew up in port Richmond row homes. Usually the stairs to the 2nd floor are directly above the stairs to the basement. Therefore, if you wanted to put a 1/2 bath under the stairs you would also have to relocate the stairs to the basement. I have seen 1/2 baths put in at the back of the house, off the kitchen and in the dinning room by the window as a previous poster commented. Good luck.
  • Rental Property Investor · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 102 posts · 129 votes
    8y

    @Mauricio Botero

    Since you indicated this may be a rental I would put it under the stairs.  The picture idea you posted adds awkward space in the living room.

    most town houses and apartment I see with this configuration in TN have a hb under the stairs.  They're a little tight but function well imo.

  • Architect & Investor · Bothell, WA · Member since 2015 · 102 posts · 78 votes
    8y

    There are many ways to do this. The key is figuring out what the design concept is that you are going for for the house. Is it an open space plan? Or are you trying to maximize storage and create highly functional spaces. (@Chris Purcell the minimum head heights are 80" (6'-8"), but mind you that is from the standing point at the toilet) Currently the trend is for open space, but we are quickly finding that no storage results in a lot of clutter. Here is a concept that I have put together that works for the storage Idea while providing visual interest to the kitchen (mind you that this is a 3 level house with the garage below, but I think you can get the idea).

  • Lehigh Valley, PA · Member since 2016 · 144 posts · 91 votes
    8y

    Is that the only radiator in the room? We did one with a full bath/shower-only in the corner as in the remodeled pic. If you can work around the heater all the better. 

  • Specialist · Atlantic City, NJ · Member since 2013 · 431 posts · 170 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Greg Wilkins:

    I grew up in port Richmond row homes. Usually the stairs to the 2nd floor are directly above the stairs to the basement. Therefore, if you wanted to put a 1/2 bath under the stairs you would also have to relocate the stairs to the basement.

    I have seen 1/2 baths put in at the back of the house, off the kitchen and in the dinning room by the window as a previous poster commented.

    Good luck.

     This is exactly right.  

    There are stairs under the stairs (to the basement), this is not a great option

  • Rental Property Investor · Swansea, MA · Member since 2009 · 13 posts · 8 votes
    8y

    @Mauricio Botero

    Keep in mind that in most areas you will be required to have a vent to the outside. YMMV

    JP

  • Mindy JensenPro Member
    BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    8y

    @Mauricio Botero , I've seen a lot of 1/2 under the stairs houses. As far as small goes, a small bathroom is much preferable to no bathroom. 

  • Investor · Stafford, VA · Member since 2014 · 45 posts · 12 votes
    8y

    @Tom McDevitt Thanks Tom. You wouldn't by any chance have any examples of a property you've come across that matches what you said? I've seen where the bathroom is added using that side window inside of the space, but have not seen what you are describing yet.

  • Investor · Stafford, VA · Member since 2014 · 45 posts · 12 votes
    8y

    @Mindy Jensen I completely agree. I'll get whatever size half bath I can get on that first floor. Still haven't run into one yet though in these rowhomes in North Philly. And like @Greg Wilkins mentioned, most of these homes have stairs to the basement directly above the stairs to the 2nd floor. 

  • Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 1 post · 0 votes
    8y

    Hi Maurico - For these row houses, you've got the living, dining, and cooking space on one floor, and it's a tight fit. If you put the half-bath right there in, what's normally used for dining space, everyone is going to see you and hear you use the bathroom. Maybe this is OK for family use but awkward for guests. Have you considered putting the half-bath in the privacy of the basement? You don't even have to finish the entire basement to implement this and chances are the laundry (water line) is already down there. You can even do a swanky stackable W/D unit in the bathroom with a drain in-case the entire thing floods at one point. And, even put in a shower, a la wet room. Then you can fit a reasonably-sized place to eat and normal living room furniture in the open space and save your guests embarrassment.

  • Eric BurchPro Member
    Investor · Jonesboro, AR · Member since 2017 · 24 posts · 10 votes
    8y

    We have used the area under the stairs. eliminates some storage but ads a ton of value.

  • Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 2 posts · 2 votes
    8y

    @maurico   I do not have any pictures. But I have been many homes that have added a powder room not a full bath. They take out the window and build the powder room into the breeze way.   I will tr find a photo.

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 344 posts · 276 votes
    8y

    For all Philadelphia investors who understand putting a bath under the stair is not feasible, this may be a silly question.  @Mauricio Botero, are you planning to finish the basement?  If yes, why not put it there?  Philadelphians are accustomed to one bath homes.  It is really nice to have a half bath and will had some value but it is not necessary to have it on the first floor.  May I ask why you are considering adding a half bath on the first floor?  Does your research show that 1st floor half baths are in demand, they add considerable value to homes in the area?

  • Investor · Stafford, VA · Member since 2014 · 45 posts · 12 votes
    8y

    @Paulette Midgette Thanks for your input. Yes definitely planning on finishing the basement. And definitely would consider the full bath in the basement. Saw a few examples of that in a recent tour of houses in the market that were recently renovated and liked what I saw, and the proof that it sold/rented for really good value with that addition (Richmond area). I did of course also see a few houses that had the renovated half bath in the first floor that also sold/rented for added value compared to those without. I have come to the conclusion after my recent tour working with my agent, and from all the responses to this post, that I am good with either a bath in the basement or the half bath on the 1st floor. I'll treat it more of a case by case situation with the GC to see what would be the most cost-effective way to add it, versus just forcing one choice. 

    Why do I want to add one? 

    - To get more demand for my rentals and attract more tenants looking for that extra bath. 

    - To keep up with the changes in housing happening in North Philly including things like Central AC, digging out the basement, etc. 

    - Take advantage of cost-effectiveness of adding this during a complete gut 

    - To get the best ARV for the level of rehab that I am going to complete

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