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Evidence of Mold.
Is this basically a no-go for most rehabbers or is it something that you would consider if the price is right? I don't know the extent of the mold yet, but has anyone here had to deal with removal of mold, and if so was it worth it in the end?
Almost all houses have SOME mold. Especially if it has been sitting vacant. The things that matter to me are:
1. What kind(s) of mold do you have?
2. How much of each mold do you have?
3. What was the source of the water problem?
4. Is the water problem fixed / how costly will it be to repair?
Mold only grows with food (wood, etc.) and standing water. So find out if the problem was caused by a roof leak, or a pipe burst, or a cracked foundation, or...
Also if there is black mold (Strachybotrys) then I would pass NO MATTER HOW MUCH black mold there is. Based on the health reports that I have read I won't touch the stuff (the risk is more than I want to take). Maybe other people will clean up black mold, but I would prefer not to mess with it.
I just read "Buy It, Flip It, Sell It, Profit" by Kevin Myers, in which is says mold is a much bigger deal lately than it ever has been in the past. Everyone says test it to see what kind of mold it is; Kevin Myers says who cares what kind it is, just get rid of it. The bigger question is what caused the mold? Depending on the cost to fix this problem and get rid of the mold, that will be the deal breaker. He says to make sure your contractor knows the proper way of getting rid of it (i.e. wearing a gas mask, keeping dust levels down, etc.) But mold has never stopped him from making the deal - he uses it to his advantage to lower the price.
my 2 cents
I bought a condo unit with another investor within days of each other. Mold on every surface on the first floor. It was scary looking, adn just walking inside.
I went back a week later, completely clean and new. I asked him,"how did you do it?!" He said,"I just used bleach water and scrubbed everywhere, and it worked!" House is still empty, but when I look through the window, i still dont see any mold.
SO, that definitely took my fear of mold out of the question. unless its black mold, go for it. However, I have a home im rehabbing now that has mold, buyign the 25 dollar masp rated for lead abatement and mold spores. Makes me feel good that I am taking PROPER precautions (Proper because not all masks are created equal).
A property with mold is not a deal breaker for me. In fact, those are the ones I find the most lucrative since most other people won't touch 'em.
Bleach and water is NOT the proper method to remove mold.
Mark, when you sell the property don't you have to disclose that it formerly had mold issues? A friend looked at a house for me where part of the roof had caved in, animals had been running through it and there was black mold in most of the house. His opinion was that none of the drywall could be salvaged and I've also read that mold lives in walls and insulation even if it's not visible.
It's a shame too because the house was once stately. I had considered offering the value of the land only in case the mold couldn't be remediated and it ended up being a scrape. I'm surprised it hasn't been condemned.
You'd still buy it?
A few points for the various posts:
- I have no problem buying houses with mold...even lots of mold. Generally, the discounts on these houses are much steeper than "clean" houses and the extra discount more than makes up for the extra work
- As someone else said, if mold doesn't have moisture, it will stop growing. If there is mold in a house, it's because there is a moisture source that needs to be remediated. Could be a roof/siding leak, could be a burst pipe, could be a foundation that isn't well-sealed, or could just be built-up humidity in a vacant house. Fix the moisture issue, and the mold will not continue to grow.
- Bleach and water is *NOT* the right way to get rid of mold. Bleach will cover it up (bleach turns things white), but won't kill the mold. You're only hiding the problem when you do this. You need to either remove the moldy material (especially anything very porous) or use an anti-microbial to kill the mold.
- There are lots of ways to kill mold, but I like the permanent way -- get rid of any sheetrock and insulation that has it, and use an anti-microbial on all other wood or ductwork. If you have to tear out all the sheetrock in a house, just make sure your offer reflects the discount.
- There is no way to know if mold is "black mold" or not just by looking at it. You have to test it. And like someone else said, it really doesn't matter what kind of mold it is if you get rid of it completely.
- I always disclose when I resell a house that had mold. That said, my disclosure is nothing that will catch anyone's attention. Basically, I'll say, "Remediated water intrusion issues and mold in parts of basement..." or something similar.
- I've never had a buyer even ask about past mold problems in one of my houses (the fact that everything is new probably takes away most of their concerns), but if a buyer did have an issue with a past mold problem, I'd have no problem paying for a mold test during their due diligence period. It's about $300 and should alleviate all concerns (assuming you removed the mold appropriately).
We just finsihed a rehab in Chicago that had a significant basement leak and mold. We had to put a french drain around the house and rip out the sheetrock and insulation in the basement.
We had a buyer mold inspection last week and their was no more mold found than is reasonably expected in a moist climate.
As long as you budget for addressing the "cause" and not just the symptom you'll be fine.
Alternatively, you could just market the property to microbiologists as a test lab facility.. maybe not.
TTFN,
Greg
I 100% agree with everything JScott said. He hit the nail right on the head.
As an example, this is a before picture of a portion of the rehab I started on two weeks ago. The basement is down to the bare studs and everything has been fogged. Exposed wood which will not be covered with drywall has been stain treated to remove the illusion of mold. Furthermore, I do air sample quality tests and have a lab in Weston, FL confirm that there are not elevated levels of mold in the home. At the buyer's request, I will give a copy of the report.
The root of the issue in this property was a failed sump pump. I bought the home from HUD and they had already replaced the pump, but it was too late...the damage was done and mold had set in. Had they inspected the property at tighter intervals they could have salvaged the home, but it was lucky for me. I'll take more of these properties everyday of the week!
I always give full disclosure that the property contained mold, but has been remedied.
If you have any concern, I would recommend having a mold test performed. This will establish a baseline and allow you to determine the next step to take.
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Originally posted by N.A N.A:
If you have any concern, I would recommend having a mold test performed. This will establish a baseline and allow you to determine the next step to take.
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If you know that there is mold in the house, all a test will tell you is what kind of mold it is. And to reiterate what I -- and a couple others -- said above, it really doesn't matter what kind of mold it is, as long as it is completely removed. "Black mold" may be more dangerous health-wise than other types of mold, but that's why you get rid of the mold altogether -- if it's gone, it really doesn't matter what type of mold it was.
That said, if there was mold in a house prior to rehab, a mold test is a great idea post-rehab, just to help verify that all the mold (and the source) was remediated.
Another tip -- before getting a mold test, ask the company for some guidelines for how to ensure the test is accurate. For example, a lot of people think that keeping the doors and windows open before the test (to let in "fresh air") will help get a cleaner test; but there is A LOT more mold in outside air than in inside air, so keeping the doors and windows open will actually produce results that indicate MUCH more mold than may actually be present.
I have actually been looking for houses with mold in my area, as I have seen huge discounts that would make they excellent flip properties. Mold tends to scare off many investors and most owner occupants, allowing for lower offers to often get accepted. Bring on the mold!!!