3500$ to update a washroom...SERIOUSLY?

[Jamie Montpellier]

Hi guys,

I'm looking to update a washroom in one of my rental units. 

I need :

1) New flooring (probably a ceramic tile) with sub flooring

2) New vanity and sink

3) Mirror and some paint

I've called a few places and the quotes I'm getting to contract this work out seems on the high side but I have never done a rehab or rénovations.  I could rip out the existing flooring and the old vanity and take care of painting.

I received the following quotes:

3000 - 3500$ dollars over 3-4 days for the work to be completed.

Thoughts!?

Jamie

[Nick Noon]

I have done construction my whole life and I also work for a company that does $300M in work a year, and you basically should break it down in the simplest forms you can.  For example, I will get change orders from my subs ranging from 3k to 150k that I have to break down and make sense of before I submit them to the owner and look like a fool if it's way too high. Here is what I usually do  (keep in mind I run Union work in Boston so these numbers might seem crazy if you not used to the market):

STEP ONE:  "The Giggle Check"

I break everything down into square foot(sf)/lineal foot(lf), or even "per fixture" or "per piece" price.  I know what I've paid on previous jobs and and I know what other people have paid on other jobs.  For example, I know on most jobs I pay the roofer around $400/square for TPO.  So I compare that to my current price I'm getting and if it's within reason it passes the giggle check and I further analyze.  If it works out to $1,200/square, I know somethings wrong and it doesn't pass the giggle check.  

STEP TWO:  "Build the Job in Your Head"

Take a second and actually build the work in your head and write it down.  For example, if a plumber is sending me a contract or a change order and I added in a sink and toilet to an existing property.  I'll say to myself, "so it will be one foreman with a journeyman as a helper.  They need to shut the water off and drain the lines.  Then cut and solder all the new lines in room and rough plumb it.  Then install the plumbing finishes (toilet/sink) and make sure they work.  2 guys * 2 days = 16 man hours.  Plumbers are running $120/hr so that equals $1,920 for the labor....add in the toilet and sink at a $1,000 a piece (round numbers) and we get $3,920.    So right there I've built the entire job in my head and was able to take the fixed costs (fixture costs and labor costs) and come up with a pretty close number to what the job should cost.  So if he's charging me $7,000, I know he's trying to pull one over. 

STEP THREE:  "Negotiate"

Now this takes some fine tuning without insulting them, but I usually have pretty good relationships with my subs so I can be pretty candid.  But as a starting out, always ask them...so whats the main factor driving the cost?  Never mind the $30 or whatever for the copper elbows...get to the brass tax.  What is driving this cost?  This is when they'll be glad to tell you something like, "well, I have to squeeze myself into the crawl space and lean over a couple beams and try and solder the pipe together...it's not an ideal situation and it's going to take a while".  Boom, now you're seeing it from the pro's eyes.  Now, let's not forget you have already built the job in your head so you have an idea of what it should cost.  So now that you have the main factor for driving the price, maybe you add a little fluff into you're number after he explains some of the inefficiencies or whatever, but you are now able to have a conversation about the work and walk through the scope with him.   So you say something like, "Well I was figuring it would take a day to rough it and then you'd come back the next to do the finishes".  He may agree, or he may say, hey well it's going to take me 'x' to do this and 'y' to do that, but you are starting to get all the puzzle pieces.  From there, he is either going to see your side and come your way a little or he'll stay firm.  Tell him, "But I heard you were the best!  You can knock this out in a couple days".  hahah.  whatever negotiating scheme you'd like to use.  Keep it civil and light is my policy. 

@Jamie Montpellier as you can see.  There are so many fixed costs that you can get your hands on that you should be able to come up with a price that's close to what the job should cost.  Arm yourself with knowledge and talk the sub into why he should be in and out in there in a day.   Maybe there is something YOU can do for FREE that makes his job go faster and smoother!

Sorry...didn't mean for this to be so long.