How many houses can you manage with a full time job?

[Mike Krieg]

I'd love to hear from people who have jobs on this. How many houses, or units do you feel you can handle? Some of this depends on how flexible your job is of course. I'd love to know how close people feel they can get to critical mass (replacing your income) while holding your existing job. And additionally, what are some of your tricks to automating things to take out lost time, hassles etc in landlording?

[Mike H.]

Good point on the price point of your rentals being a factor in how many you can handle.

I currently have 32 rental properties. All SFH's. And I have a full time job.

I rarely have my nights and weekends tied up when it comes to the existing stuff. Now when you start talking acquisition stuff, thats different. That will eat up a few nights and weekends as my wife does the painting and I do a little here and there. Plus, I tend to buy a lot of the finish materials and also need to check in on the contractor.

But in terms of strictly managing existing properties. I think you can easily do 50. 

Here's the thing. I'm not fixing anything myself. So what time does it actually take to PM a house? Repair call? I don't answer the phone - ever. I have them text or email me. I might ask (via email/text) a couple of questions about the issue and then ask when someone will be home.  I then forward that info and maybe a contact number of the tenant to my contractor (hvac, plumber, handyman, etc) and thats it.

I probably get about 2 to 3 calls a week on average. I don't go to the houses at all to fix anything so whats my time? 10 mins for each one? 20 to 30 mins a week on repair calls.

Mortgage payments. Whenver I get a new loan I automate the payment from my one company bank account. All payments go out from there like clockwork. I don't have to do a thing. 

My insurance company (NREIG) is a specialized insurance company for investors. They charge by the month. They send me an invoice with all my properties and bill my credit card every month. I might review the bill and make sure its updated when a house goes from rehab status to occupied but thats about it.

Lastly, collections. I've got about 80% of my tenants using the online bill pay service (I use payyourrent.com).  I have a simple spreadsheet with the house in the first column and the months of the year columns across.  When I get a payment, I put in the dollar amount in their box.  Come about the 5th or 6th, I look to see who the laggards are and send them an email/text telling them that rent is late and what is the status.

Then I may have to do some follow up with that as well. But its all text and email. I'd say maybe 3 to 4 hours a month for collections if that.

And, strangely enough, I don't think that time has changed much from when I was at 20 to when I jumped to 32.   I think the online payment thing is huge.

So for the regular stuff, I'd say I'm spending 5 to 7 hours a month tops in PM'ing these houses. And I'm guessing that the jump to 50 or 60 will increase that to 7 to 9 hours a month tops.

Where the time in PM'ing really hits is the make ready stuff. And, for now, my wife and I are still doing most of the make ready work. Typically its a full weekend of cleaning and painting.  My houses all have the rekeyable locks so I am able to do that myself which is huge.

And some houses need a handyman to fix some things too. 

I recently started using a cleaning service to eliminate that piece of it now that we have so much income coming in - the 150 to 200 bucks is one less thing we need to do. And, pretty soon, I think I'll be offloading the painting as well. 

Once we do that, then make ready effort for turnover will be:
1) Go to the house and assess what needs to be done.
2) Have handyman/contractor fix what needs to be fixed and paint/touch up where needed.
3) Have cleaning service hit the house.

2 hours for my assessment and to arrange the work to be done and that should be it.

Then, its about the showings. This is where the real time comes in for turnover. On average, I think it takes me about 2 to 3 nights of my time. I try scheduling them in bunches and for most of the homes I have now, I can actually get a good renter out of the pool from that first or second night.

Now some houses aren't as easy to rent so they tend to bring the average up. Also depends on time of year.  

Good example is the house in crete. I had one night of showings. Had 4 great applicants. Picked the best one and got the hold deposit the next day (Xmas Eve no less).  Great house at a great price.

That same time of a year, I had a vacancy in Braceville, small town. Usually its next to impossible to find someone there during the december/january timeframe. But I got an unbelievable applicant the first try. 

Then, the last one, in braidwood. New acquisition. No garage. Took about 6 showing appointments before I got one. Strangely enough, the tenant that I ended up taking was from out of town and I gave them the lockbox code to let themselves in since I couldn't make the showing.

So that one took a little longer than normal. But the house (no garage) and the time of year definitely play a role.

Still. Thats not really burning up my entire night or weekend. A showing takes me about 30 minutes to get to and 15 to 20 to go through. 30 to get back.  I'm usually home by 7pm after my showings and can settle in and watch some tv or something to relax.

Is it work? I guess. But look at the reward.  And, again, if you take out the acquisition leasings. I think I've had a total of 3 houses turn over in the last 8 months or so...... I'm sure I won't be able to keep those numbers up that high. But if you rehab right, price it right, and target the right renters, you'd be surprised how long you can go without turnover.

That being said, I'm in the lower middle class price point too. 130k to 150k houses that rent for 1300 or so per month. 3/2, 1,500 sq ft , etc.

If you're in the lower price point (30k), I don't think some of these numbers would apply. But I see no reason at all to pay a PM to do what I'm doing.

Repairs, collections (7 to 8 hours a month)
Make ready (2 hours a month - once I do what a PM does and outsource all the work).
Leasing - 5 to 8 hours to lease it up.  But remember. A PM is going to ding you a month's rent typically for leasing a house. So I would much rather save the 1,300 and give up the 5 to 8 hours. Plus I think when you do it yourself, you get much better results.

I truly believe I can handle 50 to 60 houses and maintain the full time job.
And still not miss an episode of Vikings, Suits, or any of the other crazy shows we watch.  And my fantasy sports teams are still pretty competitive too. :-)

btw: Any BP'ers out there interested in putting together a fantasy baseball league? Let me know and I'll put one up on espn and see if we can fill it up.